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Post by nikodiablo on Feb 4, 2013 3:25:25 GMT -5
BTW, for those in the Asia region looking to get FP's non stunticons, both upgradecommander and chimungmung (! toy on hand now !) carry them. www.upgradecommander.com/?pid=54710904chimungmung.com/product_info.php?products_id=1015Now I've had nothing but good experience with Upgrade Commander, but I absolutely have never ordered anything from chimungmung. From what I've read in other forums, they seem to be reliable though. It's kinda weird, because I thought the reason Robotkingdom no longer carry FP products is because FP was upset because RK is selling bootlegs of FP's products - which is what precisely chimungmung is doing. But who knows, maybe I'm making too much assumptions
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Post by Lejam on Feb 4, 2013 9:47:05 GMT -5
True, RK is banned by FP because of KO sales. KOed Hasbro is okay, but with independant companies like FP, it's not fair. Found this pic on tf2005 boards : -> from the beginning, FP is matching Classic/Henkei line size. Imo it's one of the best TF line created (size+details+G1 redesign...) (Masterpiece is out of purpose ) Edit : some members allready got their order...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 13:12:45 GMT -5
True, RK is banned by FP because of KO sales. KOed Hasbro is okay, but with independant companies like FP, it's not fair. Talk about double standards. Why is it OK to KO products from a company that owns the IP, but it is not OK to KO products from a smaller company that uses the same IP without a license or permission from the company that owns it? Although I admit that I am guilty for buying KO products, still KO in general is not OK, period.
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Post by supergetterv on Feb 4, 2013 13:37:18 GMT -5
True, RK is banned by FP because of KO sales. KOed Hasbro is okay, but with independant companies like FP, it's not fair. Talk about double standards. Why is it OK to KO products from a company that owns the IP, but it is not OK to KO products from a smaller company that uses the same IP without a license or permission from the company that owns it? Although I admit that I am guilty for buying KO products, still KO in general is not OK, period. I agree with some of the statement but not all of it. Sure the IP was infringe on, but the design, the sculpt wasnt done by Takara/Hasbro. This isn't a blatant copy/bootleg of the original toy from Takara/Hasbro. I guess I define KO differently. To me, a KNockoff is when you recast the original mold and make copies of it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 13:41:38 GMT -5
I know what a KO is, and if you read my question, I asked why is it OK to KO a product from one company but not from another.
In this case, one of the companies happens to own the IP.
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Post by supergetterv on Feb 4, 2013 14:12:08 GMT -5
It was brought up that chimungmung put up pre orders for these figures. Now, we don't know if FP is supplying these figure to them. Even if they were banned it doesnt stop them from getting these figures from another wholesale retailer and sale them on their site. Honestly, RK can do the same. But maybe the relationship between the two side turned really bad.
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Post by quinjester on Feb 4, 2013 14:56:29 GMT -5
Talk about double standards. Why is it OK to KO products from a company that owns the IP, but it is not OK to KO products from a smaller company that uses the same IP without a license or permission from the company that owns it? Because in this case, Robot Kingdom was "stealing" from Fansproject DIRECTLY. This wasn't a nebulous "who really owns this" kind of philosophical discussion - they were selling cheaper knockoffs of fansproject's own products, and seeing as fansproject does their own distribution they elected to discontinue working with them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 15:31:28 GMT -5
I like how you removed Lejam's quote from mine. The point that I was addressing is that Lejam stated that KO of independent companies is unfair. But KO of a corporate like Hasbro is OK. Hasbro might be a larger company, and it tends to turn a blind eye most of the time. But stealing is stealing no matter who they are stealing it from. Anyway, I am done with this argument.
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Post by Chen on Feb 4, 2013 18:20:27 GMT -5
I don't want to get this thread to off topic and a debate like this belongs in the Break Section, but I will say there's a certain distinction between a KO and a Unlicensed product. Most sites won't sell blatant copies of another toy like those G1 Dinobot or Metroplex KO's but will sell unlicensed products because there's a fine line between bootlegging and producing unlicensed toys which are clearly influenced by licensed properties but share zero technical data.
Both cases are benefiting from licensed IP properties but to different degrees, Hasbro/Takara does have a right to take action on either case but seems to only get involved if it's a direct copy like those Dinobots or will compete against a product they have/will releas like the Fantoys Soundwave. It's a fine line to say the least.
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Post by Lejam on Feb 4, 2013 18:38:47 GMT -5
May I interupt you ? Of course KO an existing release (official or not) is not fair, I just said that KOed Hasbro is just "few dollards" missing for them, but doing this to Fansproject is a quick bankrupt. FP margin is few, Hasbro margin' is big. And how much crappy Bruticus and Superion were saved from sale clearance with a sold out ? Where did go all the Classic/Henkei Rodimus and/or Ultramagnus ? Thanks to FP and Hasbro win. And be sure Hasbro/Takara creation team will probably love to employ FP designers, but it will cost too much and producing these toys is off topic for Hasbro marketing and financials. What is important for Hasbro : make Transformers franchise continuing to live and sell more toys as possible with a minimum cost of production. And I know what it is to fight with lawyers when a company is copying your work. My experience in toy industry is little, I worked with iGear on PP03 Seekers : these were pure KO versions, I worked with independant companies and also big toy group (Bandai is the name), so I know THE difference. Some are working for passion of designing toys, other for margin and spreading their name on kids (sorry for this image). IMO, in this case, RK has a double game here : see today how they put in front window TFC or Fantoys (they should worry) the same way they did it with FP by the past... Be sure FP shutted down negociations with them after the City commander and Protector trailer KOed versions sales (RK probably sold the stock left from Kotoys). But it's not my business, I am just on FP side here. ... So my point was a just a kind of "Robin Hood policy"...
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Post by nikodiablo on Feb 4, 2013 21:15:59 GMT -5
It was brought up that chimungmung put up pre orders for these figures. Now, we don't know if FP is supplying these figure to them. Even if they were banned it doesnt stop them from getting these figures from another wholesale retailer and sale them on their site. Honestly, RK can do the same. But maybe the relationship between the two side turned really bad. I think this statement best answers my earlier comment about why RK no longer carrying FP products, because CMM clearly also sells KO FP products. Although, if CMM gets them from a middle man services indirectly from FP, how can CMM sell them so cheap?
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Post by edge on Feb 4, 2013 22:31:16 GMT -5
This almost warrants its on thread
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Post by nikodiablo on Feb 4, 2013 23:11:14 GMT -5
Let's get back to the topic then. Size comparison to MT's Giant: Whoa! Didn't realize those Giant guys are so big!
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Post by supergetterv on Feb 4, 2013 23:56:02 GMT -5
It was brought up that chimungmung put up pre orders for these figures. Now, we don't know if FP is supplying these figure to them. Even if they were banned it doesnt stop them from getting these figures from another wholesale retailer and sale them on their site. Honestly, RK can do the same. But maybe the relationship between the two side turned really bad. I think this statement best answers my earlier comment about why RK no longer carrying FP products, because CMM clearly also sells KO FP products. Although, if CMM gets them from a middle man services indirectly from FP, how can CMM sell them so cheap? It isn't cheap, 65$ listing price is higher than BBTS and TFSources 60$, captureprey 57$ and that is not including shipping. CMM as you call them, is stationed in HK. If they got these directly from FP, the selling price should be way lower than BBTS, captureprey and TFSource because, no oversea's shipping charge for them and for them to be competitively priced versus the USA website stores. It's the reason I am speculating that they probably get them from another wholesale retailer that can get them a couple of cases.
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Post by edge on Feb 5, 2013 1:06:26 GMT -5
I wonder how these guys are gonna look like combined. More and more I think about it I think it's gonna look kinda silly. We haven't seen the cars in any sort of "limb mode" so is this guy gonna be exactly like the g1 combiner and have the cars as feet and then cars as arms with attachable forearms and fists (like rage of herc release)? I hope they figure something out cause that would look pretty dumb to me.
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Post by nikodiablo on Feb 5, 2013 2:51:27 GMT -5
I think this statement best answers my earlier comment about why RK no longer carrying FP products, because CMM clearly also sells KO FP products. Although, if CMM gets them from a middle man services indirectly from FP, how can CMM sell them so cheap? It isn't cheap, 65$ listing price is higher than BBTS and TFSources 60$, captureprey 57$ and that is not including shipping. CMM as you call them, is stationed in HK. If they got these directly from FP, the selling price should be way lower than BBTS, captureprey and TFSource because, no oversea's shipping charge for them and for them to be competitively priced versus the USA website stores. It's the reason I am speculating that they probably get them from another wholesale retailer that can get them a couple of cases. My bad. I didn't check the NA seller's price and just assumed that they were more expensive than CMM's pricing. Thanks for clarifying.
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Post by Lejam on Feb 5, 2013 8:46:06 GMT -5
I took mine at tfsource... I allways choose C9 box condition (I think that means shipping is well protected but window box could suffer from little scratch... Who cares ?...) Second packaging revealed from Iacon FB :
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Post by Lejam on Feb 6, 2013 16:57:15 GMT -5
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Post by nikodiablo on Feb 6, 2013 20:40:58 GMT -5
Still no images of motormaster yet...
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Post by locidm on Feb 6, 2013 21:08:26 GMT -5
These guys are tiny, and I thought the Giant Gestalt were small.
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