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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 10, 2015 8:23:30 GMT -5
One thing to point out, and truly, the only relevant thing to what started this debate, is what you mentioned about the Popy Grendizer's box. It does say Grendizer is 30 meters, doesn't it? So... if the Mazinkaiser OVA clearly states that ir is 23 meters tall, then - Bandai screwed up the SRCs Grendizer and Mazinkaiser heights - which is what I stated in the first place. }D
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 10, 2015 13:24:04 GMT -5
Can't we just all agree that in the movies they had to make the go nagai robots almost as tall as each other. I think the problem when they were created was that Go Nagai didn't anticipate the other super robots teaming up when fans demanded it. I think the heights for the statistics are correct but if they followed those stats the mazingers and grendizer would look like midgets compared to getter robo. Especially Jeeg whose just a bit taller than boss borot. if you watched Grendizer im sure you remember the episode that boss borot appears in it was the episode 31 at the end of the episode Boss Borot was almost as tall as Grendizer and we all know that boss borot is way shorter than Mazinger z, the manga and the wiki say some thing but the anime and ova's say some thing else, even with Mazinkaiser OVA and the movie they give you the idea that Mazinkaiser is taller than any other super robot
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 10, 2015 16:44:45 GMT -5
Can't argue that. But again, I'm taking about who is taller between Mazinkaiser and Grendizer. And according to all these things brought up, and this screen capture below, Grendizer is the tallest. I think there is no further argument then? The SRC Grendizer should've been taller than the SRC Mazinkaiser. }D
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 10, 2015 16:48:47 GMT -5
And it turns out that, according to the cards, the Shin Mazinger Zero is just as powerful as the regular Mazinger and Shin Mazinger. Hmmm...
}D
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 10, 2015 18:30:14 GMT -5
Can't argue that. But again, I'm taking about who is taller between Mazinkaiser and Grendizer. And according to all these things brought up, and this screen capture below, Grendizer is the tallest. I think there is no further argument then? The SRC Grendizer should've been taller than the SRC Mazinkaiser. }D Grendizer is the tallest in its Toei Doga TV series where Mazinkaiser had never existed. You can't simply use the numbers from different series to compare side by side because they have different stadards. (ie. in Mazikaiser OVA, Great Mazinger got shorter from 25M TV standard to 20.5M to scale with Mazinkaiser's height) So, I would say you can't really tell which one's taller based on the official data that we have available. These numbers in fact never meant anything in the show, and is especially irrelevant with the chogokin toys which never used any of these numbers to scale their releases. You usually have newer stronger robots to be taller and bigger, so I feel it's about right to have Mazinkaiser bigger taller than Grendizer, simply because he is stronger. I have to disagree. Grendizer is 30 meters tall, and there is nothing stating different. The first Mazinkaiser, which is nothing like the OVA Mazinkaiser, is said to be 28 meters tall. So, even if you go with that number, Mazinkaiser still smaller than Grendizer. Also, Bandai usually does scale their figures if they are from the same canon, just not to their exact heights. The SOC and SRC Great Mazinger figures are bigger than Mazinger Z from the same lines - same with Shin Getter and Getter Robot. }D
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Post by Mechanical Flesh on Apr 10, 2015 18:54:00 GMT -5
Comparing Getters and Mazingers is like comparing helicopters and airplanes: it makes no sense. They're robots from different universes. Well, you can do it for fun, but let's not take it to a serious level.. We have quite a discussion going on huh? In fact, I feel like I'm reading through some pages of the Mazinger Canon, hahaha
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 10, 2015 22:29:44 GMT -5
I have to disagree. Grendizer is 30 meters tall, and there is nothing stating different. The first Mazinkaiser, which is nothing like the OVA Mazinkaiser, is said to be 28 meters tall. So, even if you go with that number, Mazinkaiser still smaller than Grendizer. Also, Bandai usually does scale their figures if they are from the same canon, just not to their exact heights. The SOC and SRC Great Mazinger figures are bigger than Mazinger Z from the same lines - same with Shin Getter and Getter Robot. }D Yes, Grendizer is 30 meters tall in his own show which is not universal, because there're examples like Great Mazinger who's got his height reduced when he appeared in Mazikaiser OVA. So unless they get Grendizer in Mazinkaiser OVA being taller, or Mazinkaiser in Toei TV series being smaller, you can't tell which one's taller because there're different standards depending on the universe you're looking at. I'd consider SRC toy line as another Mazinger universe where Mazikaiser is taller than Grendizer. If you want taller Grendizer, just bring one from SOC line, and that's exactly the logic that you're trying to apply here. They're from different series so they don't blend. As for the SRW version of Mazinkaiser, as you mentioned he's nothing like the OVA version, and I see there's no problem having him smaller than Grendizer, because he really is smaller than Grendizer in the same SRW universe. Yes they do blend. I don't understand why you keep defending something that is wrong, just plain and simple. Grendizer is taller than Mazinkaiser in any universe. A meter is a meter no matter what. 30 meters are higher than 28 meters, higher than 25 meters, and higher than 23 meters - in this universe and the next. All these Nagai characters mentioned here came together in the Super Robot Army vs Ankoku Daishogun animation that was released with the Armageddon OVAs. Same universe and made by... Dynamic. }D
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 10, 2015 22:40:54 GMT -5
well until Go Nagai give us some legit info about the true output and other specifications about some robots, then we can talk it right at the moment all we can do is judge by the anime manga or srw (which we did in the Mazinger Canon thread) ah good days in my point of view they want to make every robot as the same height so no one will look better or stronger than another and its all up to the fans to pick their favorite robots and honestly Shin Mazinger Zero is a totally beast Ive read the manga and according to Kouji Kabuto "he is a creature that destroy Universes" i dont know whats more bad a$$ than that so how did they compare him to the regular Mazinger Z and Shin Mazinger Z
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Post by chogokinabdul on Apr 11, 2015 0:32:02 GMT -5
well until Go Nagai give us some legit info about the true output and other specifications about some robots, then we can talk it right at the moment all we can do is judge by the anime manga or srw (which we did in the Mazinger Canon thread) ah good days in my point of view they want to make every robot as the same height so no one will look better or stronger than another and its all up to the fans to pick their favorite robots and honestly Shin Mazinger Zero is a totally beast Ive read the manga and according to Kouji Kabuto "he is a creature that destroy Universes" i dont know whats more bad a$$ than that so how did they compare him to the regular Mazinger Z and Shin Mazinger Z The truth is that Go Nagai doesn't know sh*t about Mazingers, nor he really cares about it. Yes, he is the creator of Mazinger Z, but the Mazinger universe as whole is more of a combined effort of the entire Dynamic Pro crew and people from other companies like Toei, Bandai etc. While Go Nagai being more of a symbolic figure, the man who's truly responsible for all the detailed background settings actually is someone named Tatsuhiko Dan from Dynamic Pro. (he died in 2005) stuff like photo atomic energy, chogokin Z, are all based on his ideas and he even participated in SRW games as advisor to Mazinger/Getter related stories and settings. He favorited Mazinger over Getter, and he was especially fond of creating newer more powerful Mazinger. In fact, he wrote a novel called 'Super Robot Wars' as the name implies it is heavily influenced by SRW games from Banpresto. In this novel he introduces new Mazinger called 'God Mazinger' which practically is what Mazinkaiser is today. (Mazinkaiser came first in the game, and I'd say this God Mazinger was actually inspired by Mazinkaiser which at the time was considered more of one time gimmick which unexpectedly gained huge popularity) This idea of New Mazinger > Shin Getter > Grendizer is clearly stated in his novel, and I believe how Dynamic Pro ranks their robot is based on his influence. BTW, Mazinger Zero indeed is the most powerful robot in the Mazinger universe at the moment, and it is practically impossible to defeat him with all its 7 Mazin Power properties. (ie. causality weapon which is able to destroy anything in the existing universe. higher prediction that can practically predict the future to evade any incoming attacks) Even the all mighty Mazinkaiser (Great Mazinkaiser that is in the comics) got completely demolished by Mazinger Zero. Not entirely true my dear ... the idea of Chogokin Z is the Idea of Go Nagai himself from the beginning back in early 70s and the Idea of getter ray is the idea of both Go and Ken ishikawa and Tatsuhiko have nothing to do with creating these two concepts! GOD MAZINGER is an actual mazinger in the mazinger cannon that was created in the 80s so he has nothing to do with it as well. but yes he has good part in creating Mazinkaiser dude Grendizer is part of the mazinger universe no matter how you view it ! Toei specifically asked Go Nagai to create the ultimate super robot that should surpass the mazingers and that is why he created Grendizer the way he did ! taller heavier and more advanced and showed a real leader of the pack attitude in the OVA film of Grendizer , G-mazinger and Getter Robo G movie. So you can't claim that Go nagai don't know sh*t about his creations. Just un fair
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Post by gravewolf on Apr 11, 2015 2:25:24 GMT -5
I think this discussion needs to have another thread as this is the src grendizer thread and we're now going off topic. I have no problem seeing this discussion continue in another new thread since this is an interesting topic to me too and I know very little of how our favorite super robots were conceived.
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Post by chogokinabdul on Apr 11, 2015 2:45:51 GMT -5
@ Kaus ... I am with you on some parts and have to disagree with you on other parts.
Go nagai had waaaay more influence in his early days in his creations then he became more of a loyalty figure after time went by from mid 80s till now.
but his early works had a lot of his ideas ! like chogokin Z ! that was purely him ! also Getter ray which was purely him and Ken. and Grendizer was created for toei by him! then toei with kazou Komatsubara and shingo araki updated the design for TV the way we know it and love it.
But from day one ... Grendizer was created to surpass the other mazingers! I love how people keep comparing him with other newer robots that were created 20 years after ! he still hold a firm solid place in the top ranked Robots
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Apr 11, 2015 11:48:35 GMT -5
Kaus, those are some interesting posts indeed. Do you read Japanese?
I agree with you that Go Nagai, and his staff, doesn't really care much about his creations. That is why we see ba$t*rdized Mazinger stuff all over. But it is a well known fact that Go Nagai has never settled the debate of which is the best between Grendizer and Mazinkaiser. He just will not say.
Shin Mazinger Zero is truly the biggest ba$t*rdization of the Mazinger concepts. I started reading the manga and just had to stop because it was just too much. They literally turned Mazinger Z in Goku from Dragonball Z, for crying outloud!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 11:59:58 GMT -5
I think this discussion needs to have another thread as this is the src grendizer thread and we're now going off topic. I have no problem seeing this discussion continue in another new thread since this is an interesting topic to me too and I know very little of how our favorite super robots were conceived. I agree. Thsee are very interesting and insightful posts, but they need to be moved to the Mazinger Canon thread.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 12:01:58 GMT -5
They literally turned Mazinger Z in Goku from Dragonball Z, for crying outloud!!! }| OK, now I want to see pictures!
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 11, 2015 14:09:59 GMT -5
Not entirely true my dear ... the idea of Chogokin Z is the Idea of Go Nagai himself from the beginning back in early 70s and the Idea of getter ray is the idea of both Go and Ken ishikawa and Tatsuhiko have nothing to do with creating these two concepts! GOD MAZINGER is an actual mazinger in the mazinger cannon that was created in the 80s so he has nothing to do with it as well. but yes he has good part in creating Mazinkaiser dude Grendizer is part of the mazinger universe no matter how you view it ! Toei specifically asked Go Nagai to create the ultimate super robot that should surpass the mazingers and that is why he created Grendizer the way he did ! taller heavier and more advanced and showed a real leader of the pack attitude in the OVA film of Grendizer , G-mazinger and Getter Robo G movie. So you can't claim that Go nagai don't know sh*t about his creations. Just un fair 'Go Nagai' was more of a name that Dynamic Pro would brand their creations with due to his huge popularity. Even the Getter Robo was introduced as Go Nagai's work back then. In fact, Mazinger Z was combined effor of entire Dynamic Pro staffs, and the person who's responsible for things like that was Tatsuhiko Dan. As for God Mazinger, there're actually few completely different God Mazingers that only existed in paper as well as in the novel I mentioned. The God Mazinger I'm talking about is this guy. Nope, he's not Mazinkaiser, he's God Mazinger from the novel 'Super Robot Wars' written by Tatsuhiko Dan. (Ken Ishikawa did the illustrations) And Grendizer was more like an improvised project caused by a success of the Great War of the Flying Saucers and general interest in UFO at that time. The initial plan was to create a sequel to Great Mazinger titled 'God Mazinger' (yes another God Mazinger that's completely different from the 80s version) He looks like this. I know I'm glad too that it was never realized lol. Dynamic Pro had less influence when Toei did Grendizer, especially from Go Nagai himself, as the early design of Grendizer was mostly done by Ken Ishikawa Go Nagai is supposedly responsible for its head design which I seriously doubt is the truth. As you can see, this initial design is quite far from the Grendizer we know and love. I'd say Toei staffs should get more credit for its creation. (especially Toei's own Kazuo Komatsubara) Even Toei realized that they didn't need Dynamic Pro, so they created Gaiking with their internal staffs only. I know a lot of people here consider Go Nagai as a God like creative mind responsible for all that's Mazinger, but as you dig more and more into it, Go Nagai's part is actually minimal at best. His interest was never in the robot shows. By the time he did Grendizer comics, Ken Ishikawa would do most of the drawings Left: Go Nagai, Right: Ken Ishikawa Pay attention to the differences in its head design and how forearm is shaped. If you have Grendizer comics, you'd see the Ken Ishikawa version more often as story progresses lol. And Go Nagai would soon completely stop drawing, letting some other guy (Yuu Okazaki) to continue his work. will actually Go Nagai love Mazinger Z because he is his first creation and first super robot in the world he is what made Go Nagai a well knowing writer, Ive read an interview with him how he started thinking about Mazinger Z and the design of the hover pilder it was really decent and simple the god mazinger you are talking about was supposed to be the end of the Mazinger saga the plan was Kouji poilt it to fight Yami no Teiō but the project never saw the light for some reason i forgot and Grendizer was introduced to the Mazinger world so he is conisedr a 3rd run of the saga since we have Kouji in it and i agree with the other members lets go to the Mazinger Canon thread so we dont go off topic this discussion should be done there in here robotjapan.proboards.com/thread/16936/mazinger-canon?page=69
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Post by Gold on Apr 13, 2015 5:57:59 GMT -5
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Post by Chen on Apr 13, 2015 6:10:11 GMT -5
Holy crap that looks sweet! It's about damn time we got another Grendizer anime, I can also see a ton of new toys based of this new Grendizer. Now comes the inevitable Mazinkaiser VS Grendizer Giga posts lol.
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Post by gravewolf on Apr 13, 2015 7:02:05 GMT -5
Holy crap that looks sweet! It's about damn time we got another Grendizer anime, I can also see a ton of new toys based of this new Grendizer. Now comes the inevitable Mazinkaiser VS Grendizer Giga posts lol. Lol, you start the kaiser vs giga debate I just really hope it's a new anime, though I'm not digging giga's new cape.
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Post by chogokinabdul on Apr 13, 2015 7:05:58 GMT -5
Holy crap that looks sweet! It's about damn time we got another Grendizer anime, I can also see a ton of new toys based of this new Grendizer. Now comes the inevitable Mazinkaiser VS Grendizer Giga posts lol. Lol, you start the kaiser vs giga debate I just really hope it's a new anime, though I'm not digging giga's new cape. Same here ... why the cape?
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Post by gravewolf on Apr 13, 2015 7:13:11 GMT -5
Yeah seriously, Grendy looks too bad ass already without a cape! I'm just glad they didn't change the looks much.
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