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Post by bleen on Feb 28, 2005 21:36:39 GMT -5
Hello people, I'm new here... greetings to all. I've been wanting to start with Gundam models, so after quite some heavy research, I went and ordered a PG Strike from Ebay... it still hasn't arrived (I live far from Hong Kong), but I've read that panel lining makes these kits look awesome... so I went and bought a black rotring-like marker... but I'm unsure if it's the right thing for the kit... will the ink stay in place in the kit's plastic? or will it run? I've never built one of these, and the kit was quite expensive so the last thing I'd want to do is ruin it. And yes, I KNOW it would have been better to start off with a HG 1/144 kit, but I do NOT want to paint or glue and I've seen 1/144 kits unglued and unpainted and they look terrible So I thought of a MG kit, but I'm in love with Strike's design and since shipping to my country is expensive for a MG and a PG, I opted to pay $50 more and have a kick-@ss kit. I don't want to paint because I've seen PG strikes without paint and I think they look good... I've seen a painted one in the forum which looks awesome though... but I don't have an airbrush, and I don't have a place to paint with one even if I had it. That's also the reason why I won't buy spray paint either. And painting it with a brush will probably make it look worse than unpainted. So I just bought a cutting mat to have something to cut the pieces from the trees on, a hobby knife, and this rotring-like marker (0.005, the finest I could get)... I probably won't file the pieces, since that would make them look bad without paint... (I think?), I'll just cut them off the trees with extreme care and cut the sprues as clean as I can... Any help on the marker thing? Any considerations I should have? Tips? they'll all be welcome... Thanks ;D
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Post by jwm on Feb 28, 2005 22:40:46 GMT -5
Funny you should ask. See this thread: Building the PG Strike It has to do with my experience in that exact matter. Welcome to Robot Japan. JWM
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Post by bleen on Mar 1, 2005 12:20:15 GMT -5
jwm, thanks for your reply I had already read your post, it was very informative... about this part, which refers to panel lining markers... it was of some help, but here's my main problem: I do not live in the US or any country which has Aaron Brothers. They don't sell "Pigma Micron" or "Mark-A-Lot" pens here anywhere. I got an "Edding 1880" "drawliner 0.05". It says is "pigment ink, lightfast". It's a rotring-like marker, sometimes used by architects to draw blueprints and the sort. Would this do? Or should I get another kind of marker? Thanks a lot for the help EDIT: I've seen some mentions to "dry brushing" and "black washing".... what does this mean? I've also read somewhere that one can achieve nice effects on the inner mechanisms by painting a paper in silver paint, letting it dry, and then scraping the paper over the surface... anyone done this? could a novice do it? Thanks :-)
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Post by jwm on Mar 1, 2005 14:27:46 GMT -5
You just have to do some experimenting. The biggest problem with marker pens is that with some of them (like those Pigma markers) the ink doesn't stick to the plastic, and it tends to bead up. The other problem is cleaning the stray ink smears from the rest of the part. I use lens tissue, and a little rubbing alcohol, but again, it depends on the marker ink. You can try your pens on the runners. The label that comes on each rack is a good place to practise. (By the way, where are you from?) JWM
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Post by bleen on Mar 1, 2005 18:14:21 GMT -5
Hummm... I've seen some HG in a local comic store... they're at like U$S 30 which is a price more suited for a MG... but then again, shipping here usually costs U$S 20~25 for those so it's not that bad... maybe I'll buy one and experiment on it... Speaking of which, I grabbed a couple of those cheap Banpresto valkyries (paid like 3 or 4 U$S each in HLJ), and I tested panel lining some parts which are hardly visible anyway.... I tested my 0.05 pigment ink marker and a permanent ink marker which didn't have a number, but was twice or three times as thick. At first sight, the pigment marker was better, being thinner and all. I made a mistake and went outside a line but I could easily remove the excess ink with my finger. I let them both to dry a couple of hours, and then I frenetically rubbed my finger in the painted lines. The permanent ink was... well, permanent :-) The pigmented ink seemed good at first, but after some rubbing it "evaporated" (dunno what happened, maybe I absorbed it with my finger or something, but it sure didn't run or make stains). Which makes me think that pigmented markers are not for painting model kits!Sure, I don't know if the plastic used in these toys is the same as the plastic used in the Bandai models, but I believe the marker will act the same. Anyone want a pigmented marker? I've got one too many I'll try to get a 0.05 permanent marker, do those exist? O.o and jwm, I'm from Buenos Aires.. I'll try to post some pics when my PG arrives or I start breaking***I mean making that HG or something... Cheers :-)
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Post by ataru on Mar 1, 2005 18:31:40 GMT -5
I've found the micron pens (I think similar to your pigmented marker) to be excellent for gundam kits. People have a tendency to make panel lines too thick at first, and come to regret it down the road. With the microns, yes they bead up and yes they wipe away easily, but if you keep going over the line until there's enough ink on it to stop the beading and then carefully wipe away at it with your thumb, you can get extremely thin panel lines. I've done lines with oil washes, gundam markers, pencils and microns, and the microns are what ive used most (washes can save a lot of time on things with loads of detail but take a lot longer on things with little detail).
BTW, my number 1 recommendation to you to make your unpainted models look better is to spray them with flat clear paint. It makes such a difference with so little hassle that it would be worth going out of your way to find a place where you can do it. It's like comparing the finish of an hcmpro (like unsprayed) to a fix or emia (like sprayed).
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Post by bleen on Mar 1, 2005 19:59:57 GMT -5
by flat clear paint you mean like a transparent coating? or just a spray paint of any color I chose? Either way, I've read that these spray paints would have to be acrylic-type... because acetone-based or lacquer paints eat up the polyestyrene hte kits are made of. And over here I simply cannot get those special spray hobby paints... I CAN get acrylic paint, but only for airbrush.... which I don't have... Too expensive for now I once managed to find an tamiya acrylic-type spray paint, but it was like 8.50 a can or something like that... too expensive And as I said before, painting it with a paintbrush would only make it uglier Edit: I've seen a very cheap system (someting like U$S 10) that is something like an airbrush.... it seems that instead of a compressor it uses a compressed air can... which costs like 3.50 a can. Now, I was wondering, does anybody know if these cans last at least for a whole PG paint session? and if I paint the blue parts, and then the red ones, would the red become bluish? I mean, how does one clean this stuff? It's clearly made in high impact plastic or something of the sort, so I guess leaving it in thinner is out of the quesion... excuse my basic question ...
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Post by ataru on Mar 1, 2005 20:40:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I meant a transparent coat; it takes away the plasticky look. I pay ~$5 for clear spray from a local hobby shop, but it'd be worth it even at $8.50. It's still drastically cheaper than buying the paints for a full paint job, but can look almost as good, if the painted thing being compared to doesn't use shading techniques. I've brush-painted a few models, clear sprayed a bunch and full-on spray painted one model. In my experience, a well done brush job doesnt look significantly worse than a spray job except for at extreme close range. Also, my sprayed full-paintjob models only look a bit better than my sprayed detail-painting-only models. I've come to the decision that if I want a flat finish, ill just spray the plastic, unless the plastic is the wrong color. If I want a semi-gloss or gloss finish I do a full paintjob, because clear gloss spray doesn't get rid of the plasticky feel the way flat does.
Man, I really went off on a tangent considering you're saying you don't have access to spray paint. With a PG it would probably take 2 or 3 cans, but I'm telling you, it would be worth it unless you're going for the toy look (which I could definitely understand). The spray also locks in the panel lines so they won't smear, which was the original point of me talking about spray in the first place. ;D
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Post by bleen on Mar 1, 2005 22:12:10 GMT -5
ahhh, so what would be the "generic" name for a transparent coating? or how could I find one? Or what kind of chemical it would NOT have to include? Paneling and then coating doesn't sound that difficcult... maybe I could use my garage.... it's small thou I've continued experimenting on my small valkyries... I've done what you said, pigment marker and then smudge with finger... I can only say one word: AWESOMEIt's too late at night to be taking pictures, but the small toy got 200% better all of a sudden O.o; This particular toy (as with many, many toys) has a lot of modeled detail that is simply painted uniformedly or unpainted. After a couple of hours I've finished the panel lining for the whole toy minus one leg (which I'm keeping unpainted at least until I can photograph the model so you can see the difference). I've also grabbed the permanent marker and painted thick black lines... not panels, but "paint"... I've changed the paint scheme on this valkyrie a little, I like it a lot, plus it is quite neat&tidy :-) Thanks for the technique I still have 2 more banpresto valkyries screaming to get the same treatment, they should be enough to keep me entertained for a while, at leas until my PG arrives... they're different colurs though. I'm tainted to panel my Bandai 1/55 valkyrie and my binaltech transformers...
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Post by bootx2 on Mar 2, 2005 11:47:54 GMT -5
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Post by bleen on Mar 2, 2005 14:56:27 GMT -5
Nice link, thanks... I haven't been able to get thin permanent ink markers so making the tip thin by scraping it with a cutter seems like a good idea... Since I'm using pigmented ink, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to buy some dark red markers and making their tips thinner with the cutter... my next "victim" will be a red banpresto valkyrie, maybe dark red panel lines would be better than black panel lines? anyone done this? Ok, now a few images of my finished valkyrie (minus one leg). I separated the limbs for comfort (they're ball joints anyway). Note that I paneled the whole thing minus one leg... The thing with Banpresto's valkyries is that, even if they have modeled detail, the quality of the creases is not uniform, and if you use the technique I used (pigmented markers + smudging to take the excess ink off), some panel lines will stay thicker, some will become thinner, and, worst of all, some lines will have variable thickness. I hope gundam panel lines will have more quality :-) ok, enough words: Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting
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Post by jwm on Mar 2, 2005 18:25:57 GMT -5
Those look good. You're going to have a blast when you get hold of the Strike. JWM
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Post by bleen on Mar 3, 2005 20:46:00 GMT -5
I was wondering about that clear coating ataru mentioned... I can get a liquid one (not spray)... would applying it with a brush leave streaks in the surface? Edit: I've just read that lacquer, enamel and acetone based paints do awful things to polystyrene (the stuff these Gundam kits are made of)... so I really am terrified of buying a srpay paint or a paint that will dissolve the model when I paint it... I need to know what paints you people use.. or what NOT to use :-) thanks. What brand of spray clear coat do you buy? I'll try finding it online and see if I can see what chemicals it has... maybe I could get something similar locally... :-)
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Post by bootx2 on Mar 4, 2005 12:02:29 GMT -5
I usually use Tamiya for Gunadm models (the acrylic kind). But Mr. Color is suppose to be the best for Gundam models. Primer, clear coat, paint, putty, ANYTHING!
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Post by bleen on Mar 4, 2005 13:23:00 GMT -5
Just found out there's a hobby shop here that sells Mr. Top Coat spray at U$S 9 ;D They don't have spray paint but I didn't want to paint the thing in the first place, so I guess it's ok... I hope Mr. Top coat is good for spraying an unpainted gundam model...
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Post by heavyarmscustom on Mar 6, 2005 6:53:14 GMT -5
Bleen If your in the US Look For Model Master Acryl Paint
they have a 3oz acyllic clear coat in Flat, Semi-gloss and Gloss that thins with water and is awesome with a soft sable paint brush. (no streaks!!!!) the paint is pre-thined to go through an air brush out of the bottle. two cents clifton
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Post by heavyarmscustom on Mar 6, 2005 6:59:01 GMT -5
Crap!!!!! I also use Micron drafting pens in size 005 and 01 the G-markers are a nighmare to use IMHO. but I have tried the back of a Tamiya model knife blade(the real small one) and dipped the tip in ink,and it creates a very fine line in the panel line but it's a damn mess if you screw up. I'll try to post pictures of my Blue and Red Astray HG on this subject tomorrow
clifton
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Post by Valk1S on Mar 6, 2005 10:06:33 GMT -5
Hi, I am pretty new in this boards and also just got into Gundam. I first made a HG 144 scale Wing Zero Custom and fully painted and panel line it and the panel line came out too thick as I was using a Gundam Marker. The second and just completed kit that I did was a MG Aile Strike. Didn't paint much, only did for areas where necessary and again I used a Gundam Marker for the panel lines. But this time I manage to get nice thin lines. The way I did it was firstly to panel line the place I wanted to. Some may seem thick at first but the trick to make it thinner is to dap a tissue/cloth in some thinner (I used Tamiya Acrylic Thinner) and lightly wipe off the areas where it has been panel lined. Basicaly this will remove the excess ink around the lines if the lines are indented. For areas where there is no indent I used an exacto knife and careful outline the lines with the sharp end of the blade and then panel line. This time when u wipe off the excess the ink will stay in the line. (I learn this from another board but can't remember where, but you have to becareful as an incorrect line can be a pain to fix up. I kinda did some but manage to fix it. But this method may be too thin for a PG kit). Here's the link to some pics that I have posted up at Macrossworld to get some feedback. www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7455&st=1120I pretty happy with the outcome although no where near as good as those who painted them beautifully. The good thing about Gundam markers is that they dry fast and sticks to the kit, plus they can be removed easily with thinner.
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Post by bleen on Mar 6, 2005 19:58:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies... Valk1S, those pictures look good, I can see the panel lines, and they really make the model look better heavyarmscustom, I do NOT live in the US, so I can't get all those cool brands. I'm happy I found Gunze Sangyo's Mr. Topcoat spray here... I still don't have someplace to spray paint, so even if I know things would look better with that, I'm still considering using a paintbrush... The thing is, I don't want overcomplicated things, I'm not an advanced model builder nor do I wish to be. I just want to have some fun assembling these kits, and, if I can spend some more time making them look better, I will... but I'm NOT spending months and months to build it... Does painting with paintbrush take much longer than doing it with a spray? is it more difficult? I also have a question... I've seen some people painting with spray paint when the pieces are on the sprues... Other people cut all the pieces, and then paint them pinning them down on some phoam board or something like that... I'm guessing this is the best way... but my doubt is... how the heck do you know what part is what when you no longer have the sprues to identify them?! I mean, I've read the PG strike has like 560 parts or so... there's no way in hell I would be able to tell the pieces apart Aswers will be welcome, and please excuse my n00b questions
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Post by bleen on Mar 7, 2005 14:51:33 GMT -5
Ok, today I went on "coating quest" around the city... found no clear coating spray in matte (the gunze sangyo I was offered was a glossy one). So what gives, I bought a natural paintbrush (a small, flat, smooth one), and a bottle of clear coating (water-based, matte). It's a local brand, so I'm somewhat afraid of it... but I didn't find anything else... I hope thinning the clear coating with water and applying a couple of layers to each piece will be sufficient for obtaining a matte finish without much trace of a paintbrush... Anyways, some days ago I ordered a HG ZZ Gundam I found cheap on Ebay, hope it arrives before the PG so I can test stuff on it... Tips are always welcome!
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