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Post by silverdonz on Dec 18, 2011 20:32:57 GMT -5
Hi guys, i've been wondering for a long time, will hot toys have a value and worth to collect like CHOGOKIN (any brands) ? Because i saw alot of collectors change their interest from collecting CHOGOKIN, to collecting HOTTOYS (kinda good for me to buy their chogokin from them ;D but thats not the topic here) . Is it worthed ? For a LONG RUN, does HOTTOYS will have the same value like right now, in the future ? And i mean market value, not personal.. And we all know CHOGOKIN already proved valuable.. (IM not downgrading a HOTTOYS collectors, im also interested in HOTTOYS figures, just not enough to sold some of my CHOGOKIN to buy them.) Lets discuss our opinion about it
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Post by chachipower on Dec 18, 2011 21:47:22 GMT -5
Hi guys, i've been wondering for a long time, will hot toys have a value and worth to collect like CHOGOKIN (any brands) ? Because i saw alot of collectors change their interest from collecting CHOGOKIN, to collecting HOTTOYS (kinda good for me to buy their chogokin from them ;D but thats not the topic here) . Is it worthed ? For a LONG RUN, does HOTTOYS will have the same value like right now, in the future ? And i mean market value, not personal.. And we all know CHOGOKIN already proved valuable.. (IM not downgrading a HOTTOYS collectors, im also interested in HOTTOYS figures, just not enough to sold some of my CHOGOKIN to buy them.) Lets discuss our opinion about it Well my opinion is not to let future value dictate your collection. It all depends what the demand is for Hot Toys in the future compared to supply. I do see that Hot Toys seem to go up in price in the aftermarket and the trend lately is to turn to ebay for market value. This is FALSE market value unless of course its an auction and it consistently sells for a certain amount. Of course there are times something sells for a ton of money and then the next time you see it, it sells for almost nothing. I paid $240 for something I really wanted and won only to see it again on ebay sell for $40 shipped. You need to take into consideration that Buy it now ebay prices are indeed inflated to cover fees and such and because sellers know that once in a while a fish will bite. In my experience, I have seen something I want go for 3-5 times the price I can grab one from a forum like say R-J So just cause you pay $200 for a Hot Toys figure and see it on eBay or amazon for $500 doesnt mean its worth $500 unless it is selling at that price.
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Post by lurkerx on Dec 18, 2011 21:53:02 GMT -5
Well yes....even more.
Chogokins are more of an excentric "nitch" with a very limited audience/market when compared to Hot Toys. And chogokins are only valuable if they don't get re-issued and most modern gokins get reissued so the value never really goes up by much. As for the old vintage ones their value is pretty much stagnant or is appreciating at a sluggish rate... not a lot of new entries to the chogokin collecting world are drawn to vintage opting for modern gokins for the lower price of admission.
Hot Toys 1/6 figure's present & future value hindges on the polularity of the movie/ character. Considering that these movies characters are more wide-spread and well known, the potential for the figure's value to appreciate is only limited by the amount of re-issue and Hot Toys don't normally re-issue their stuff unlike most chogokins.
Let's face it Superman Christopher Reeves, Batman Michael Keaton Ironman Robert Downey has a wider world-wide inter-generational population reach/ appeal than say a Mazinger that added to the superior quality of Hot Toys 1/6 figures and uncanny character likeness makes for the "ultimate/ definitive" movie collectible. Right now it is the "Golden" Standard for the 1/6 scaled figure.
50 years from now most all chogokins will be dirt cheap as the characters they are based on would've been forgotten. And those that do remember (us old collectors) would either be dead or on fixed pension income nowhere near what we have today.
Icons such as Superman, Batman, Ironman, Spiderman will still be recognize and be highly desirable.....I believe Hot Toys will ultimately out-live and out-value Jp chogokins unless Hot Toys gets into the habit of re-issuing...
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Post by chachipower on Dec 18, 2011 21:55:56 GMT -5
I agree, I never even touched on that in my post but the fact that the characters are widely recognized helps. I mean even though I have a Hot Toys Golgo 13, I didn't really want another 1/6 HT until Superman. Now I have Batman and Joker on pre-order
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Dec 18, 2011 22:33:00 GMT -5
A certain chogokin (Godaikin Tetsijuin 28) says different... ;D In the future there will be even better engineered 1/6 figures of the iconic characters, and the current Hot Toys will not be as valuable... wait and see. }D
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Post by silverdonz on Dec 19, 2011 0:29:13 GMT -5
the way i see it not only the value depends on the popularity of certain items it can also be valued by the content of the item like pvc, die cast, so in a long run other items may not last long as die cast figure and once the color changed, or the joints started to loose , the value might gonna drop. as a REAL collector we might not gonna sell the item we collect, BUT we do think of its market value sometimes right ? do we really can believe that if 10 years from now we can still at least sell our hottoys the same price like we bought them ? unlike chogokin, i can guaranty i can.
if only they've made ironman in die cast.. WOW !
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Post by supergetterv on Dec 19, 2011 1:37:13 GMT -5
No one can predict the future, and you can't say that the hottoys brand figures aren't going to sell as high. The assumptions that the current day chogokins are going to hold its value is also a wrong. I would dare say that it has more of a chance to dip, cause the interest in them has already drop. You kinda made that point in your original post, that more people are moving on to collect the Hottoys figure and passing on Chogokins. Old robots, are just that, they are old. When the majority forgets them, who's is gonna want them? The market trend doesn't care if it is made of metal or plastic. And when it comes to buying and selling anything, you want to sell things that many people want, not something that only a select number of people wants.
Every now and then, a new collectors discovers chogokins and thinks it is the top of the line best thing that there is to collect. That is just because it is still fresh to them. Once they see the bigger picture, you'll one day notice why people are moving onto other thing, outside of just chogokin collecting, only then can they understand.
As you look at this past year, there are some really good chogokins out. The CM Braves Jeegs, Fewture Shin Getter, Metal Build 00 Gundam, the SoC Daltaneous and God Sigma, and let's not forget the big variety of SRC figure. All of this is good, but kinda all over the place. Some people spend $600 on the Fewture Shin Getter 1. I spend my $600 on a to be completed unlicensed Transformers made by a third party 3 maker name Hercules aka Devastator. Perhaps the fewture chogokin is worth more, but 10 years down the line, there are still going to be more people in this world that knows what a Devastator is versus who Shin Getter is.
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Dec 19, 2011 2:00:51 GMT -5
That is a big assumption there bro! New toys sell because there is marketing for them (movies, anime, comic books, etc...) and older toys sell because there is nostalgia from the people that grew up watching "their marketing" at the time. Companies will continue to push the characters forever and a day, until there is no more interest in them. So I have to disagree with saying that in 10 years not many people will know what Shin Getter is. As a matter of fact, I really don't know what Hercules/Devastator is, other than it is a Transformer, right? That's because I personally don't have any interest in Transformers, new or old. Just like there are people that don't really know anything about old Super Robots, or care to. But again, the Hot Toys of today will be the Megos of tomorrow. Yes, there are some that will pay top dollar for a Mego, but those are only serious collectors. And of course, you also have the vintage chogokin collectors that pay even more money for yesterday's stuff, and there is a whole bunch of those that are members here. Me, I don't consider myself a serious collector by any means, so I will always go for what is better, looks more anime/movie/comics accurate, and has better articulation... and metal content is a plus too! ;D Then again, not being a "true" collector, since I collect anything that really catches my attention (yes, some Transformers included), I couldn't seriously tell how much the value of the two will rise, remain, or fall in the future... }D
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Post by silverdonz on Dec 19, 2011 3:43:59 GMT -5
No one can predict the future, and you can't say that the hottoys brand figures aren't going to sell as high. The assumptions that the current day chogokins are going to hold its value is also a wrong. I would dare say that it has more of a chance to dip, cause the interest in them has already drop. You kinda made that point in your original post, that more people are moving on to collect the Hottoys figure and passing on Chogokins. Old robots, are just that, they are old. When the majority forgets them, who's is gonna want them? The market trend doesn't care if it is made of metal or plastic. And when it comes to buying and selling anything, you want to sell things that many people want, not something that only a select number of people wants. Every now and then, a new collectors discovers chogokins and thinks it is the top of the line best thing that there is to collect. That is just because it is still fresh to them. Once they see the bigger picture, you'll one day notice why people are moving onto other thing, outside of just chogokin collecting, only then can they understand. As you look at this past year, there are some really good chogokins out. The CM Braves Jeegs, Fewture Shin Getter, Metal Build 00 Gundam, the SoC Daltaneous and God Sigma, and let's not forget the big variety of SRC figure. All of this is good, but kinda all over the place. Some people spend $600 on the Fewture Shin Getter 1. I spend my $600 on a to be completed unlicensed Transformers made by a third party 3 maker name Hercules aka Devastator. Perhaps the fewture chogokin is worth more, but 10 years down the line, there are still going to be more people in this world that knows what a Devastator is versus who Shin Getter is. i've agreed on some of the points that you've made, and i understand that in future time there will be more new hottoys, new chogokins. and also new breed of collectors will be born too.. but try to imagine if u were to buy hottoys ironman and gx13 dancougar (kinda same price) today, and 10 years later you gonna have to sell them , not for profit, just to let go stuff, and sells them at the same price that you've bought them, which one you would think will sells ? by then, 10 years age of hottoys ironman (pvc) vs soc dancougar (diecast). 10 years of pvc will turn yellow if displayed, and if mint in box, it will fuse with the box can you still sell them at the price you've bought them ? and is it really worth ed to sell many years of chogokin to buy new age figure like hottoys ? Then again, not being a "true" collector, since I collect anything that really catches my attention (yes, some Transformers included), I couldn't seriously tell how much the value of the two will rise, remain, or fall in the future... }D what i meant by TRUE COLLECTORS is most of us here is not a SCALPERS (collect for profit), we collect because we love it, out of passion.. yeah i to collect other stuff like TF and gunpla.. ;D i like hottoys, many of them are cheaper than chogokin this days, nice to look at too, and im not defending chogokins either, all my replys are base on what i think as logic.. thats why i created this thread, to discuss and to learn and also to absorb knowlage from experts like u guys ;D ;D
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Post by snowdog on Dec 19, 2011 5:12:45 GMT -5
As it has already been said above, some Hot Toys figures show a noticeable increase in value in the aftermarket. I think if you're interested in them as a short term investment, they might be worth it.
However, I'd be wary of them as a long term investment. In my opinion, their biggest issue is not one of popularity but one of quality. Contrary to the chogokins of the 1970s, which still look great nowadays (if they've been treated with respect), Hot Toys items are likely go bad on you, even if you don't remove them from their packaging.
Hot Toys occasionally release products whose quality is not really on par with the price you pay for them. Some of their early releases, especially figures with rubber muscle bodies, already start to bristle. More recent releases, like the Dark Knight DX version, also suffer from rubber degradation; Iron Man armours discolour etc.
Nobody is going to pay top money for an item that is technically MIB, but which in reality is nothing but a piece of bristle rubber.
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Post by silverdonz on Dec 19, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5
A short term invesment is a BIG Problem to collectors like us who collects out of passion because we might wants our collections to be with us for a long time. Thats where hottoys become a problem.. Its just to bad that the hightly detailed figure that they've made have this issues because of the materials they've used.
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Post by Dead-Man on Dec 19, 2011 16:20:39 GMT -5
Chogokin & Hot Toys, my two Favorite Things Getting the Characters you grew up with as a Kid "Chogokin" and getting the Characters from movies you enjoy as an adult "Hot Toys"
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Post by snowdog on Dec 20, 2011 3:32:32 GMT -5
A short term invesment is a BIG Problem to collectors like us who collects out of passion because we might wants our collections to be with us for a long time. Thats where hottoys become a problem.. Its just to bad that the hightly detailed figure that they've made have this issues because of the materials they've used. This is just my opinion, but considering your collection as a financial investment in the first place might not be the best way to go about this hobby. In your original post you inquire about Hot Toys' potential future value and whether they're "worth" collecting. The question you should be asking yourself, is whether you're willing to purchase Hot Toys products for the enjoyment they bring you. There are many hobbies and collections that go down the drain because after a certain time there is no "new blood" to the hobby and hence no renewed interest in whatever the collections might be. Just look at comic books for example. Back in the 90s, some people saw comics as a way to invest money and make a quick profit. The market was artificially inflated, new comics were released in poly-bags and with foil embossed covers or chase variant covers to enhance their "value". They also happened to be sold at increased prices, since they were "special collectors' issues". The aftermarket went insane. Anyone remember Cliffhanger Comics' and their limited-to-5000-copies-foil-cover 1st issues? Anyone even remember Cliffhanger Comics? And what happened? The bubble burst and most of these gimmicky comics ended up being sold in sales bins for a fraction of their original price. I'm not that involved with the comics world anymore, but I don't think the industry or the hobby have really been going strong lately. Reader interests have waned. Technology has evolved and the world has gone digital: now that you can store thousands of issues on your computer/tablet and download the hard-to-find rare back-issues, who still needs rows upon rows of boxes filled to the brim with paper comics? And what happens to all these paper comics and their "value"? Exactly! A similar fate could be in store for this hobby of ours. I guess that most people here are in their mid-thirties or older and first came in touch with chogokins some time in the 70s. There was something magic to us about these weird robots, and by playing with the toys we created memories that we can still go back to nowadays, simply by looking at our collections. Personally, I don't have kids but when I see my nieces/nephews or my friends' kids and their relations to their toys, I think it is highly unlikely that these children will ever be able to form similar bonds to their own toys, let alone those of their parents: short attention spans, video games and legions of easily disposable/replaceable toys don't really help. The point is that eventually there might no longer be a market for our prized collections, and collectors' items that we have spent thousands of dollars on over the years will revert simply to being chunks of die-cast metal and molded plastic. So, enjoy them for what they bring you and what they mean to you. If you fancy a Hot Toys figure or a particular chogokin, spoil yourself! Try not to think about what it might bring you later at resale. Finally, just for your information, this is what can happen to Hot Toys products: toyhaven.blogspot.com/2011/06/hot-toys-sdu-all-cracked-up.htmltoyhaven.blogspot.com/2011/09/hot-toy-collecting-tip-2-what-to-do.html
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Post by blackdeath on Dec 20, 2011 5:05:28 GMT -5
As a diehard chogokin collector and a general buyer of other toys (i have a few hot toys dolls) I think I have a decent insight into the current toy market. One thing is for certain and it has been true for all collectible markets. Once the producers stat making toys for collectors the top of the market has been called. This was true for baseball cards, comics, action figures and toys. THe toys from the period prior to the collector series coming out are always worth more and they tend to hold their value. Think Mickey Mantle baseball cards, Rookie Pete Rose card, Action comics #1, X-men #1, the first appearance of punisher elektra etc. Even the Killing Joke has some value still. Most things aimed towards collectors are over-valued to begin with and the secondary market tends to the appropriate price, which is usually lower than the initial retail price. The collectors items tend to be good quality so they don;t go for pennies on the dollar, but if you invested in the SoC line you have been burned from day one. There are only 3 or 4 in the series that are worth more than the initial retail, like the 2nd black mazinger, black bosborot, the limited SoC T-28. The others are usually lower than the initial price. I don't buy any of the SoCs at list I always get a 30-40% discount at time of issue, otherwise it is not worth it. This is true for CMs, Max Gokin etc. This is true for the hot toys i have seen so far as well. I do not think any toys that were geared towards collectors will retain initial value. you can still sell them, but you won't make a profit unless you got a steep discount when you bought it.
Jsut doing a cursory glance at the hot toys on yahoo.jp the toys aren;t moving at price that the sellers want. it is a buyers market.
10 years down the line, i don't see much additioanl hope for any of these toys. Soc, Cms, hot toys, maybe in 30 or 50 years after the zombie apocalypse....
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