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Post by hetabattousai on Mar 25, 2014 11:03:36 GMT -5
I'm getting this just because I want a GOOD Golion/Voltron with arms that don't fall out, some actual hip articulation, and with-out the tendency to fall forward like a 2 year old. I can get past some of the design changes if the spirit of Golion remains which it does in my opinion. Granted I would take a SOC Golion over this in a heartbeat but WEP will never let that happen in their infinite stupidity so this will have to do. It would be great if the creators of this would join this forum and talk to us and listen to some of our suggestions. This may exactly be the reason why WEP will never allow Bandai to do one of the voltrons. For one, Bandai wont be paying much to WEP due to their bargaining power. Second, Bandai will kill all the competitors by miles when it comes to quality. meaning no other company willing to buy the voltron license ever again, knowing no fans will want them after bandai's "perfect" version. This idea along I think killed Bandai any chances. Think of any toyline that Bandai made under their belt and another company soon afterward made it as well?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 12:22:36 GMT -5
Not exactly soon after, but Evolution Toy released Raideen (as a Garage Kit) after Bandai's SOC Raideen, the same company is releasing God Mars and still planning to release Danguard Ace after Bandai released those robots in their SOC line.
So just because Bandai happens to release a superior quality toy in their SOC line, it will not deter other companies to try...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 18:13:37 GMT -5
He is talking about WEP's censoring of Go Lion's cartoon.
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Post by surlyj on Mar 26, 2014 0:17:04 GMT -5
I'm getting this just because I want a GOOD Golion/Voltron with arms that don't fall out, some actual hip articulation, and with-out the tendency to fall forward like a 2 year old. I can get past some of the design changes if the spirit of Golion remains which it does in my opinion. Granted I would take a SOC Golion over this in a heartbeat but WEP will never let that happen in their infinite stupidity so this will have to do. It would be great if the creators of this would join this forum and talk to us and listen to some of our suggestions. This may exactly be the reason why WEP will never allow Bandai to do one of the voltrons. For one, Bandai wont be paying much to WEP due to their bargaining power. Second, Bandai will kill all the competitors by miles when it comes to quality. meaning no other company willing to buy the voltron license ever again, knowing no fans will want them after bandai's "perfect" version. This idea along I think killed Bandai any chances. Think of any toyline that Bandai made under their belt and another company soon afterward made it as well? That's very likely not the case. This WEP/Bandai match made in hell most likely comes down to one thing and one thing only, money. If I were to venture a guess, WEP is asking Bandai an insanely exorbitant price for Voltron, more than they do from Toynami or Mattel. That, or Bandai, knowing that Voltron is much more popular in the States than it is in Japan, isn't willing to pay a big price for Voltron. Either way, it comes down to money.
The other two potential factors stopping this from happening are personal contention or control issues.
Perhaps WEP demands final approval on products, and Bandai won't let them have it. I could see that, since their trademark is their quality, so giving final approval elsewhere can undermine that effort.
Or someone high up at WEP just hates someone high up at Bandai. It's certainly possible. Even business men can be petty.
But that's all wild speculation. Most likely it's just a matter of dollars and cents.
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Post by magengar on Mar 26, 2014 0:26:16 GMT -5
I just don't get it, why is WEP being such a tightass with Voltron! Why can't they just for once let Bandai have a fair shot at the license? WEP has been milking Voltron since day 1 that it hit the US under that corny name-change; look at all the mercs for Voltron and they still continue milking it. At least Bandai has been cool with other companies following behind them, judging by what I have seen thus far; it seems to me Bandai even welcomes all that competition. Whereas WEP is acting like a selfish miserable miser... ...Disneyfied GoLion and then hold it hostage with two Toynami versions and now re-hasing the same figure build as a "30th Anniversary" edition and the only thing that's really new about it is the light-up eyes and its funky display base. Schmbluuuuuuuuuugh lol zozo-mag
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Post by Chen on Mar 26, 2014 6:27:41 GMT -5
It's most likely because Lion Voltron is by FAR their most profitable license they own, it's their bread and butter. Their super anal about and want to control every aspect of the license, they are also been trying for years to get a big budget movie made ala Transformers which would put hundreds of millions of dollars into their pockets if it was successful. They also have a zero understanding of the fan base beyond America or what fans truly want. It's like their stuck in the 80's.
I will say that I am interested in the whole Robotech/Voltron crossover no matter how dumb it may sound.
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Post by miracle on Mar 26, 2014 8:09:16 GMT -5
hi all, prehaps there is something I should not say, if you guys more understanding the relationship between WEP, Toei and Bandai, you will be more understanding why Bandai not making golion.
I believe the WEP and Toei have a couple court case, they sue each other about the right of golion over 20 years.
As a real business partner of Toei, will Bandai make a lion Voltron to upset Toei?
Just the saint seiya Myth cloth series contribute around 10% total sales of Bandai, and, other big titles like Dragon Ball, one piece ...etc. you can imagine how big the amount they work together every year.
FOr Lion Voltron, how many pcs Bandai can sell? 50,000? I guess, how much they can earn? 100 USD each? may be or may be not.
so, total max is just around 5,000,000 USD. for a small company like us, is a lot, for Bandai, sure is not a lot.
will Bandai going to upset Toei just becasue of this amount, I don't think so....
so, that's why bandai did not and will not make it.
sorry, I am really talking too much.
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Mar 26, 2014 8:43:03 GMT -5
hi all, prehaps there is something I should not say, if you guys more understanding the relationship between WEP, Toei and Bandai, you will be more understanding why Bandai not making golion. I believe the WEP and Toei have a couple court case, they sue each other about the right of golion over 20 years. As a real business partner of Toei, will Bandai make a lion Voltron to upset Toei? Just the saint seiya Myth cloth series contribute around 10% total sales of Bandai, and, other big titles like Dragon Ball, one piece ...etc. you can imagine how big the amount they work together every year. FOr Lion Voltron, how many pcs Bandai can sell? 50,000? I guess, how much they can earn? 100 USD each? may be or may be not. so, total max is just around 5,000,000 USD. for a small company like us, is a lot, for Bandai, sure is not a lot. will Bandai going to upset Toei just becasue of this amount, I don't think so.... so, that's why bandai did not and will not make it. sorry, I am really talking too much. This is great info! Thank you for sharing it with us here miracle! }D
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Post by chogokinabdul on Mar 26, 2014 9:19:54 GMT -5
hi all, prehaps there is something I should not say, if you guys more understanding the relationship between WEP, Toei and Bandai, you will be more understanding why Bandai not making golion. I believe the WEP and Toei have a couple court case, they sue each other about the right of golion over 20 years. As a real business partner of Toei, will Bandai make a lion Voltron to upset Toei? Just the saint seiya Myth cloth series contribute around 10% total sales of Bandai, and, other big titles like Dragon Ball, one piece ...etc. you can imagine how big the amount they work together every year. FOr Lion Voltron, how many pcs Bandai can sell? 50,000? I guess, how much they can earn? 100 USD each? may be or may be not. so, total max is just around 5,000,000 USD. for a small company like us, is a lot, for Bandai, sure is not a lot. will Bandai going to upset Toei just becasue of this amount, I don't think so.... so, that's why bandai did not and will not make it. sorry, I am really talking too much. Thanks miracle, that actually explains a lot We are happy to have a felo member who actually produce our beloved gokins and who can explain things to us
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Post by surlyj on Mar 26, 2014 14:21:05 GMT -5
That all makes sense. So if I am reading that right, WEP and Bandai could conceivably come to terms for the license, but if Bandai were to cut a deal with WEP, it would piss off TOEI, since TOEI has sued WEP multiple times over the years about the worldwide rights to Voltron. Since TOEI and Bandai do a lot of other business together that accounts for much more profit than Voltron could bring to Bandai, it's not worth it for them to piss off TOEI. Kind of a "don't sh*t where you eat" kind of thing going on. The only thing that contradicts that is when the Bandai rep said at toyfair that Bandai would love to do voltron, but just needs the license holder to be cooperative, which insinuates that WEP is the one holding things up. Now perhaps that means Bandai insists that TOEI get a piece of the action in a deal between wep and bandai and wep won't have it due to the contentious lawsuits. Or the bandai rep was shifting blame away from their side and just being kind of sh*tty, insinuating that WEP is the one holding this up because they won't acquiesce, when in fact it is their right to do with voltron as they please and bandai/toei are trying to push them around. It's an interesting scenario regardless. Thank you Miracle for sharing the information. If this were a bigger issue to the world at large, this kind of stuff would be easily known as financial journalists would do all the digging and get to the bottom of it, but ultimately this is not a really big deal to more than a relative handful of robot dorks in NA
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Post by magengar on Mar 26, 2014 14:37:46 GMT -5
hi all, prehaps there is something I should not say, if you guys more understanding the relationship between WEP, Toei and Bandai, you will be more understanding why Bandai not making golion. I believe the WEP and Toei have a couple court case, they sue each other about the right of golion over 20 years. As a real business partner of Toei, will Bandai make a lion Voltron to upset Toei? Just the saint seiya Myth cloth series contribute around 10% total sales of Bandai, and, other big titles like Dragon Ball, one piece ...etc. you can imagine how big the amount they work together every year. FOr Lion Voltron, how many pcs Bandai can sell? 50,000? I guess, how much they can earn? 100 USD each? may be or may be not. so, total max is just around 5,000,000 USD. for a small company like us, is a lot, for Bandai, sure is not a lot. will Bandai going to upset Toei just becasue of this amount, I don't think so.... so, that's why bandai did not and will not make it. sorry, I am really talking too much. That makes perfect sense. I had always felt that Toei should have never sold their GoLion rights to WEP. I've been trying to research more about that relationship for a long time. I watched " Voltron, Defender blah blah blah" when it was on TV here in the U.S. back in the early '80s... I'd also watch the Closing theme credits so that I can see who produced that show.... "WEP" did such-n-such, yeah okay, and then TOEI's name appeared at the end of the credits as the source of the robot character's origin. Since then I began to dislike the way anime is imported and edited in the U.S. . I love the GoLion robot character, and I only use the name "Voltron" as a reference and nothing more. I deeply dislike... no, I despise WEP for what they have done to the original GoLion anime series. It's like They shaved a goat and called it a "Cat"! zozo-mag
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Post by magengar on Mar 26, 2014 14:46:18 GMT -5
That all makes sense. So if I am reading that right, WEP and Bandai could conceivably come to terms for the license, but if Bandai were to cut a deal with WEP, it would piss off TOEI, since TOEI has sued WEP multiple times over the years about the worldwide rights to Voltron. Since TOEI and Bandai do a lot of other business together that accounts for much more profit than Voltron could bring to Bandai, it's not worth it for them to piss off TOEI. Kind of a "don't sh*t where you eat" kind of thing going on. The only thing that contradicts that is when the Bandai rep said at toyfair that Bandai would love to do voltron, but just needs the license holder to be cooperative, which insinuates that WEP is the one holding things up. Now perhaps that means Bandai insists that TOEI get a piece of the action in a deal between wep and bandai and wep won't have it due to the contentious lawsuits. Or the bandai rep was shifting blame away from their side and just being kind of sh*tty, insinuating that WEP is the one holding this up because they won't acquiesce, when in fact it is their right to do with voltron as they please and bandai/toei are trying to push them around. It's an interesting scenario regardless. Thank you Miracle for sharing the information. If this were a bigger issue to the world at large, this kind of stuff would be easily known as financial journalists would do all the digging and get to the bottom of it, but ultimately this is not a really big deal to more than a relative handful of robot dorks in NA I'm gonna think about That thought while I'm at work this evening. Interesting. This is only my personal Theory, and not to be taken as "fact"........ I have a suspicion: Is that rep Really from Bandai, or did WEP plant him there to create a scandal that would try to break the bond between Bandai and Toei? Dear Bandai, you married an Angel. Please DON'T betray your husbear! zozo-mag
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Post by crpdiablos on Mar 26, 2014 14:47:56 GMT -5
I'm reading into this what I want to hear but what are the chances this Beast King is very similar to the prototype bandai says they might have and the vv may have been similar to anithrr prototye. Its just my conspiracy theory but that would be as great way for Bandai to avoid all the issues and get us a toy we want. I mean didn't wep license the VV at first. Maybe Wep is working f8r uscand we dont know it. Ok I must be bored today.
Ok thanks for the info Miracle give a thumbs up if my theory hold any water
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Post by crpdiablos on Mar 26, 2014 14:48:10 GMT -5
I'm reading into this what I want to hear but what are the chances this Beast King is very similar to the prototype bandai says they might have and the vv may have been similar to anithrr prototye. Its just my conspiracy theory but that would be as great way for Bandai to avoid all the issues and get us a toy we want. I mean didn't wep license the VV at first. Maybe Wep is working f8r uscand we dont know it. Ok I must be bored today.
Ok thanks for the info Miracle give a thumbs up if my theory hold any water
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Post by surlyj on Mar 26, 2014 15:02:13 GMT -5
That all makes sense. So if I am reading that right, WEP and Bandai could conceivably come to terms for the license, but if Bandai were to cut a deal with WEP, it would piss off TOEI, since TOEI has sued WEP multiple times over the years about the worldwide rights to Voltron. Since TOEI and Bandai do a lot of other business together that accounts for much more profit than Voltron could bring to Bandai, it's not worth it for them to piss off TOEI. Kind of a "don't sh*t where you eat" kind of thing going on. The only thing that contradicts that is when the Bandai rep said at toyfair that Bandai would love to do voltron, but just needs the license holder to be cooperative, which insinuates that WEP is the one holding things up. Now perhaps that means Bandai insists that TOEI get a piece of the action in a deal between wep and bandai and wep won't have it due to the contentious lawsuits. Or the bandai rep was shifting blame away from their side and just being kind of sh*tty, insinuating that WEP is the one holding this up because they won't acquiesce, when in fact it is their right to do with voltron as they please and bandai/toei are trying to push them around. It's an interesting scenario regardless. Thank you Miracle for sharing the information. If this were a bigger issue to the world at large, this kind of stuff would be easily known as financial journalists would do all the digging and get to the bottom of it, but ultimately this is not a really big deal to more than a relative handful of robot dorks in NA I'm gonna think about That thought while I'm at work this evening. Interesting. This is only my personal Theory, and not to be taken as "fact"........ I have a suspicion: Is that rep Really from Bandai, or did WEP plant him there to create a scandal that would try to break the bond between Bandai and Toei? Dear Bandai, you married an Angel. Please DON'T betray your husbear! zozo-mag Lol. That's one crazy conspiracy theory, Tony. The rep was working at the bandai/bluefin booth at toy fair. Don't think he was a double agent lol. The one I am referring to was in the interview by collection dx
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Post by Chen on Mar 26, 2014 16:33:35 GMT -5
WEP and Toei have been to court over Golion a lot but it has been awhile. Bandai has already said they want to make it, I also believe they would charge way more then $100US for it, maybe triple that price. Tooling although expensive would be around the same as say a God Sigma with the added bonus of North American sales. 5 million or 15 million no matter what company is a lot for just a single release. I doubt Bandai made 5 million in sales on say General Franky.
The truth is we are all guessing and I'm sure there are plenty of details and dealings we don't know about. In the end all we know for sure is that we will not be getting a Golion figure from Bandai anytime soon.
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Post by locidm on Mar 26, 2014 17:08:05 GMT -5
I think miracle was referring to a $100 profit per figure, not $100 per figure.
Anyway, we can get excited about the possibility of SOC Golion every two years or so when they renew contract. Isn't that something to look forward to?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2014 1:11:04 GMT -5
hi all, prehaps there is something I should not say, if you guys more understanding the relationship between WEP, Toei and Bandai, you will be more understanding why Bandai not making golion. I believe the WEP and Toei have a couple court case, they sue each other about the right of golion over 20 years. As a real business partner of Toei, will Bandai make a lion Voltron to upset Toei? Just the saint seiya Myth cloth series contribute around 10% total sales of Bandai, and, other big titles like Dragon Ball, one piece ...etc. you can imagine how big the amount they work together every year. FOr Lion Voltron, how many pcs Bandai can sell? 50,000? I guess, how much they can earn? 100 USD each? may be or may be not. so, total max is just around 5,000,000 USD. for a small company like us, is a lot, for Bandai, sure is not a lot. will Bandai going to upset Toei just becasue of this amount, I don't think so.... so, that's why bandai did not and will not make it. sorry, I am really talking too much. I am not buying it. Last year at Toy Fair, Bandai stated that they wanted to make a SOC Voltron (Go Lion). And they also stated that they were in negotiations with WEP. I do believe that both parties failed to reach a deal due to some reasons that are for them to know and for us to speculate. I honestly do not think that it had anything to do with Toei. The court already decided in favor of WEP as the owner. So Toei has no say to a license that they no longer own. Besides Go Lion was not that popular in Japan to begin with. Don't believe me, then how come Toei is not forcing AmiAmi to close the pre-order for the 30th anniversary Toynami Voltron? (Which did not sell out).
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Post by miracle on Mar 27, 2014 2:20:50 GMT -5
WEP not dealing with the licensing of Voltron since 2010 because of Classic Media invested in new animate Voltron Force. all licnesing now are dealing with classic media.
Toynami have some items licensed exclusive right til 2016.
if Bandai really neg. wit Voltron's right, I am sure the right will on their hands, not toynami.
WEP have the Voltron's full animation right and it is cleared. but not in real action movie right, that's why the Voltron Moive on hold. what I am saying is not because of the right not clear! is becasue of the "relationship" I can't imagine Toei and WEP still in good relationsip in these days.
pls understand Bandai is a Japan Company, Japanese company dealing everything based on "relationship" and "respect".
I am too big mouth to say too much, sorry.
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Post by miracle on Mar 27, 2014 2:26:21 GMT -5
thinking of it, apart from Bandai, why other toys company like takara, yamato, CMs, they all make Die cast toys, why they not licensing Voltron in these past ten years?
why Yamato making a lot of Macross Toys, why they not licensing Robotech in US, to sell them officially?
this is all about respect. nothing deal with rights.
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