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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 3, 2005 6:34:47 GMT -5
This is from a web cafe in Korea. They're pretty damn cool customs. Taekwon is just a little chunky but still looks quite good I reckon. Oh, yeah don't bother with the cafe as it's just a Daum chatting cafe. There are over 300,000 Daum cafes in Korea and there's nothing to see at this one. ********************************* perspective Great customs though...sad thing is that if Taekwon V was made into a SOC (impossible because Bandai wouldnt allow such an upstart into their stable) he'd still be made in China as all SOCs are (is this heresy?) Just my thinking but I prefer to buy something actually made somewhere other than China. Part of the allure of Japanese toys is in the fact that they are made in Japan. I know for me I get a thrill when I find toys made in different places...I've wanted to get hold of some DPRK toys for years now. Just hate the idea of enormous faceless and souless Chinese factories churning out millions of figures. Alex in the ROK
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Post by andrewdsz on Apr 3, 2005 10:17:31 GMT -5
What's wrong with china? I really dont see the problems that you stated above. Obivious discrimination is spotted from your unfriendly post. I really DONT LIKE what you have say, my friend. China offer us the great quality toy with the lowest price possible, and they are not "enormous faceless and souless Chinese factories churning out millions of figures" OK? Before they put into the market bandai company will recheck the quality of the toys again and again to ensure the best quality, and if they make the toys in japan or somewhere else, ready to pay for at least 40% extra money with same if not lower quality toys! If you dont apprecciate the deal, just dont buy it OK? You dont have to say it out loud here. Please eat back some of the words u've said, im very, very unplessant by it.
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 3, 2005 10:56:16 GMT -5
Hey, It's just my perspective. Bandai still maintains the idea that SOC is a top shelf Japanese product- and you obviously like that marketing.
All I know is this- it begins with outsourcing manufacturing. Then the marketing and packaging is outsourced. Following that the brands power is further diluted by even more outsourcing to other factories as the parent company tries to save more buck$.
This is the modern manufacturing dilemma. If you disagree with it that's fine- Just remember that you're not gonna see Jaguar head to China because their products rely on the `made in England' stamp. Ford know that if they try to put too many Ford branded bits into the Jaguar marque, it will destroy the brand itself
SOC collectors obviously don't care where their stuff is made...and that's good for Bandai$ bottom line!
A few years ago I found a load of Mc Farlane stuff that had been made in China and dumped in China. The unboxed items had then wound up in Korea where they were sold for less than $2 each in any store that would buy them. Back then Mc Farlane was supposed to be a good brand but hey, the stuff ended up being sold for $2 because the huge Chinese factory had no care for the maintenance of the brand.
(And please- don't try to turn this into a ridiculous `Alex is a racist troll' argument) The same thing has happened with JVC, SONY, SHARP, PANASONIC etc etc- manufactured in China now and sold at Walmart now to boot! We wont see Hasselblad moving to China but we will see practica, kenox, HP and even Canon go there.
So why do you think SOC collectors will continue to buy SOCs when they're made in China but Ferrari buyers wouldnt buy a Ferrari if it was made in China?
I don't know about you but I hate buying curios as a tourist in Europe etc and then finding later that they're made in China. It just ruins it for me- maybe you like that?
Alex in Seoul
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Post by jwm on Apr 3, 2005 11:31:11 GMT -5
When I was a kid, (late1950's, early 1960's) Japan was where cheap knockoff junk was made. It was a standing joke that anytime something broke or didn't work, we'd say, "Ha! Made in Japan, What did you expect?" Things change.
By the late 70's when all these holy grail toys were being produced, "Made in Japan" was a mark of quality. And as much as I understand the need to produce goods at a price we can afford, is is kind of sad that something so quintessentially Japanese as Mazinger Z, or Gaiking should be manufactured off-shore. That's part of why I like the model kits- they are made in Japan with Japanese QC. But what the heck- Kawasaki motrocycles are made in the US and the last Honda car I had was made in Canada. Fords and Volkswagens come from Mexico....
But would the SOC toys have chance on the market if the price rose 300%? Would you be willing to pay $300.00 or more for the added pleasure of seeing "Made in Japan" stamped on the foot? I doubt it. JWM
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 3, 2005 11:46:03 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the $ argument.
It's just funny that when I sell Korean made Japanese characters on ebay and Yahoo Japan, buyers often poo- poo them as being the lowly Korean version. That's entirely their opinion and right as custommers of course.
So when I poo poo modern SOCs for being the Chinese version, well...there's a double standard there.
Anyway, I think it was Sony camera (it was one of the Japanese camera brands) that decided they were gonna stop producing cameras in China and return to Japan. If they can do it, I think Bandai could if it wanted to. Bandai wont do it though because it's too concerned with its profit margins.
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Post by Fugly on Apr 3, 2005 13:24:07 GMT -5
Yup, we wouldn't want to accuse you of being a rascist troll, now would we? No, of COURSE not! It's such a base thing to say of such an outstanding person!
Prickly words aside, those are some fine-ass customs.
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 3, 2005 13:51:32 GMT -5
Thanks! I agree- I am an outstanding person and there's nothing prickly about that fact!
Yeah they are good customs too. I especially like the blue paint on Taekwon instead of the silver. Taekwon was never silver in any variant- where that big recent Chinese made Machinder got the silver from, I don't know.
Alex in KOR
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Post by Fugly on Apr 3, 2005 14:40:50 GMT -5
So where did you find these customs, anyhoo?
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 0:03:07 GMT -5
Just by frequenting collector sites within Korea- there's always some kind of figure/kit oddity around the place.
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Post by Chen on Apr 4, 2005 9:26:45 GMT -5
Please don't turn this thread into a ranting argument about where toys are made and the social implications it causes.
Let me say that the more this world becomes intertwined through media and industry, the less importance boarders will mean like it or not.
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 13:09:26 GMT -5
Well Chen, that's a nice way to look at globalization. I wish it were true but, it's not.
1) As all manufacturing heads towad China, the nations that are losing manufacturing to China are not getting any bennefit out of the quick rush for ca$h at all. Certainly, Chinese manufacturing might be getting better but at what cost ultimately?
2) As much as we'd like to imagine that borders are shrinking, the world is still divided by borders- even borders of perception. I find it funny that U.S. buyers often knock the Korean version of something even if it's just as good as the Japanese version for example. I know this happens because I've been trying to sell the stuff for over 2 years now.
You Chogokin buyers maybe have the idea `that a good toy is a good toy' and that's great. But I wonder if there was a choice in where your Chogokins were made, how many of you would opt for the Chinese made version over the Japanese made and why?
Variety is the spice of life Chen...if everything manufactured hails from China, it's ultimately gonna kill diversity.
I think this is a worthy discussion as long as people don't lose their cool and opt instead to think. RJ has more creative types that can think laterally (compared to toypox PC ;D) so let's talk without hurling abuse.
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Post by Chen on Apr 4, 2005 14:19:29 GMT -5
Well I live in Canada and about 90% of all manufacturing jobs are for foreign companies, be it American or Asian, but even this is shrinking with jobs now going to Mexico.
But what are companies suppose to do, cheaper labour with good quality is always on "bigwigs" minds and they can't be blamed for that.
As for diversity, I believe that is more in the hands of the designers and engineers than in the factory worker. For instance General Motors will be building cars in China while BMW builds cars in South Carolina. Each still maintains the quality they are known for (GM could still use a boost in this department) while still be uniquely American and German.
As for China getting most of the manufacturing jobs, they are in the same position as Mexico. Hopefully with all these jobs their standard of living will go up along with their demand in pay, so it will not be so cost effective for the parent companies. It may take a hundred years, but untill companies are willing to lose profits so they can build in their own countries or country of choice, I don't see anything changing soon.
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Post by ataru on Apr 4, 2005 14:28:48 GMT -5
Sasha, I think you'll find that people care about the market the item was sold to more than where it was made (although neither as much as where it was designed). If SOCs were suddenly made in Korea instead of China, but they were still sold in Japan with normal Japanese packaging, I doubt people would care either way.
Rarity is also a factor for some things. Say there's a rare godaikin with US and Japanese versions, but the Japanese version is much harder to come by. That very rarity could lead to a price hike even with no difference in the actual toy. Maybe the box design is different, or maybe only the writing on the box is changed from Japanese to English for the American version. I'd prefer a Japanese release to an American release if the price were the same, if only because I study Japanese and like the look of Japanese characters (on an aside, I'm not a fan of the look of Korean writing, and would rather have an item with an English box). For whatever reason, people like what they like, and there's nothing wrong with it. I think you'd be way off and quite the pessimist to boot if you think people dislike the korean versions you sell because of racism or anything like that.
Incidentally, the first release of the Daikumaryu soc was made in thailand, IIRC. It has the worst reputation of all of the SOCs for paint quality, and this is the main reason they went ahead and made the recolor version, which was produced in China like the other SOCs. I doubt anyone skipped the Daikumaryu's first release because it was made outside of China, but I'm sure many did because of the poor quality, which was the result of where it was made (I can tell you I did, and was happy to pick up the recolor down the road).
Which soc is that modded from?
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 14:43:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree that I don't see anything changing soon either- the $ is all important.
I really like when these crazy South American jumbos turn up. I like the way South American designers put their own stamp on them without the help of Japanese biz overlords (or for that matter any external influences). To me, that's a big part of the beauty- there's a story that extends beyond the factory made date.
I just wish the Korean toy companies would focus on creating their own products instead of buying licenses from Japan all the time. If the world could see Korean tales made into Korean toys, there'd be a whole different impetus and way of seeing things. The same could be true of Vietnam, Mongolia and even India.
This is just my own view but I'm kinda starting to think of Japanese toys in the same way as I think of Hollywood. A dominant culture that serves itself and tries to exclude foreign inputs. And just like Hollywood going to Canada to save bucks, Japanese toy manufacturers go to China to save bucks. Ultimately though both busineses protect themselves to the exclusion of other very good product.
I don't know about you guys but I'm _ucking sick of Bandai rehashing Gundam. It's as piss poor as Hollywood wasting time making Rocky part 15 when new stories could spark new growth and new ideas.
That's just some of my perspective from living here and seeing things from a different angle other than worshipping Japan or Hollywood.
Alex in Seoul
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 15:07:10 GMT -5
Hey Ataru, Yeah I agree that Kanji actually looks more exciting than Hangul does. Hangul looks like retarded binary code to me ;D! It's sad though that Japans Samurai for example are the food for many TV shows and movies etc. Yet the only time the ancient Korean Vs Japanese battles have ever been looked at remotely in the West, was in a microsoft game where you had the option of chosing the Korean Chosun empire. You know Josh.B is holding onto a Sonokong GGG that is exactly the same as the Takara issue. And the packaging looks really good too. Yet, when it's put on ebay, it doesnt even reach the wholesale pricemark I don't believe that's because of racism, but it does have something to do with the perspective of U.S. toy consumers. Perspective is everything. (And no, I'm not obsessed with all things Korean to the exclusion of other good things or reason- I just like variety and dislike domination+monopolies.) Alex in Seoul
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Post by Mazinkaiser on Apr 4, 2005 15:09:02 GMT -5
That's just some of my perspective from living here and seeing things from a different angle other than worshipping Japan or Hollywood. Alex in Seoul the perspective from your side of the fence is quite unique to say the least, however our perspective of your side of the fence is one of jealousy, anger and hate towards anyone that is not of Korean origin, or of anyone that has not accepted the Korean culture as an absolute doctrine of ones way to live life.
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 15:19:31 GMT -5
Good grief. Jealousy? Anger?
No, I'm just sticking up for, and encouraging the underdog. Nobody else will.
And my anger is totally reserved for the North Korean regime. One day North Korea is going to implode and the world is going to be faced with a humanitarian disaster the likes of which will make Ethopian famine seem like a picnic. We'll see then which great and noble nations and cultures come to the aid of Korean humans.
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Post by Mazinkaiser on Apr 4, 2005 15:20:21 GMT -5
(And no, I'm not obsessed with all things Korean to the exclusion of other good things or reason- I just like variety and dislike domination+monopolies.) Alex in Seoul Perspective is everything. Who on this planet, or in the known universe said that if you like hollywood, or bandai that you don't like variety. Just because you have chosen to be a recluse doesn't mean we have to, and watching a movie from hollywood or buying a soc from bandai doesn't make any of us less human, less humane, or less cultured.
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Post by Shropshire Slasher on Apr 4, 2005 15:41:16 GMT -5
Well it sure seems that you don't like variety.
You see the fact that you can start a post about who thinks Taekwon V is a copy of Go Nagai blah blah just shows how insular you are.
When Go Nagai was learning how to draw, Koreans were still living in third world conditions resulting from the occupation by the Japanese and the Korean War. Yes, Taekwon looks like a Japanese super robot but he's a step in Korea standing up for itself.
I don't expect you to understand this though.
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Post by Mazinkaiser on Apr 4, 2005 15:52:11 GMT -5
The fact that you try to justify your Taekwon V as being 'unique' or creative just shows how mulish you are.
A fact is a fact. The art speaks for itself. It is that simple, black and white, and you are to doltish to see that. You need to step outside of your 3rd world habitat and learn how to play nice with the other children.
The fact is that your world sucks and our does not, and you are jealous.
grow up alex
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