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Post by akyapp on Aug 28, 2003 4:51:43 GMT -5
Hi, I have been seeing a lot of prototype transformers lately...mostly of the new re-releases and some alternators... what gives? TAKARA employees leaking these out to the public for a public stunt? or just slack security!?  Some one care to share some light? |
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Post by OmegaWeapon on Aug 28, 2003 6:09:56 GMT -5
They're not prototypes; they're test shots intended to test the molds.
One report is that they're made by Hasbro employees when Hasbro is closed fro the day for the sake of making extra money they hope Hasbro doesn't find out about. Hasbro does bust such people when they find them but they obviously don't look too hard to catch them because as you point out they're everywhere. Oh well. I tried feeling bad for Hasbro and it's mercenary employees scalping test shots, but hell with them. They have the resources to take care of themselves, so I'm not gona do it just to get jumped on by a Hasbro rep who got mad because someone posted a pic of a coming toy before Toyfare magazine could sell their crappy always-late-news magazine first.
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Post by akyapp on Aug 28, 2003 6:21:24 GMT -5
heh. yeh i can prob believe the people who "made" these were from Hasbro...that may explain why the test shot for the new Alternator Smokescreen I have seen on eBay is plastic! not metal..and that the version of Prowl came with black plastic accessories and not white plastics! Gawd, it just confirms my feelings that Hasbro is cheap cheap cheap!!  Sorry for the Hasbro bashing here, but I personally think TAKARA should really reconsider their agreement with Hasbro when it comes to Transformers liscencing! Sure Hasbro gave life to the "Transformers" brand and story..but surely a bit of QC is in order!! I swerve but i get so peeved when toy quality is compromised for the purpose of milking the uneducated dry. Not to mention it gives the real company (TAKARA) a bad name... :-( |
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Post by OmegaWeapon on Aug 28, 2003 8:11:32 GMT -5
The US version of Smokescreen will be all-plastic, and only the Japanese Takara version will have any die-cast.
I think Takara is re-considering it's relationship with Hasbro; at least that's what the clues tell me. They can't do anything about the Transformers because Hasbro did "officially" create them, even if they did do it with Takara's designs, so like it or not Hasbro owns a stake in them, unless Takara re-launches the Diaclone line (assuming Hasbro didn't put an anti-Diaclone clause in the deal; they probably did).
Takara, who's owned by game maker Konami, is releasing less and less stuff through Hasbro, and right now the TF's and ZOIDS are the only two Takara properties Hasbro is releasing. Microman/Micronauts, Cy-Girl, and other Takara releases are increasingly being done by importer services like Palisades or Diamond, or licensed out to another toy maker like BBI. Konami probably never even offered Hasbro the Metal Gear Solid license as well as licenses to other Konami games. Konami is a worldwide game publisher, and I don't think they're happy with their toy division being contained to Japan only because Hasbro want the world market to itself; often with Takara's own molds too.
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Post by shaxper on Aug 28, 2003 10:03:02 GMT -5
How long has Komami owned Takara? I've never heard that. As far as I knew, Takara was still a seperate entity.
Anyway, a few clarifications here:
1. No one's b*tched about Hasbro's skimping on quality more than I have, but they're begining to improve. Most of their Armada paint schemes, for example, are just slightly different than the Japanese versions, yet always better (Demolisher, Wheeljack, Hoist, etc.). While they skimped out on quality of plastic at the begining of Armada, the more recent releases are of a far better grade too.
2. I now understand that Hasbro Alternaters will also contain some diecast, but not as much as the Japanese versions.
3. Takara nearly went bankrupt in 2000, partially because they had nearly severed their ties with Hasbro, who was producing Beast Machines (the first and only TF toyline designed by Hasbro), while Takara was doing their own thing with Beast Wars and later RID. Hasbro bailed them out when they decided to take on RID in the states, reimbursing Takara for mold expenses and paying for production rights. Beast Machines hadn't done very well in the states, and Hasbro began to realize that it needed to keep Takara going for its own sake.
I'm not sure. Maybe Konami acquired Takara around that time, in which case, Takara doesn't depend upon Hasbro for its survival anymore, but major toy companies like Bandai and Takara ALWAYS depend largely on American income to keep them going, since there are so many more people and toy stores over there. Even if Konami does own Takara, it must recognize that Takara is nowhere near as profitable without its relationship with Hasbro.
Basically, it's not hurting Takara if Hasbro is producing lousy versions of their toys in the US (though they are getting better). If Takara were to attempt to produce them here, themselves (as they did with Diakron and Kronoform), they wouldn't do anywhere near as well without the Transformers name. Especially now that all the retro toy lines are coming out, people don't trust new toy lines unless a small fortune is spent on advertising.
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Post by OmegaWeapon on Aug 28, 2003 14:01:11 GMT -5
Konami doesn't own 100% of Takara; just a large amount of shares that's enough for them to get decision-making capacity. They bought into it in 2000. www.konami.co.jp/press/2000/04/057/r.12.04.27-1e.htmlwww.animenewsservice.com/archives/april28.htmLook under the date 5-1-00 1986 is when Hasbro introduced it's first Hasbro-designed TF's. Then there was the Action Masters. Then the Machine Wars, which did not show up in Japan until the BW series, in which many MW stuff was sold as BW stuff. That's the issue. Takara has no stake in America or anywhere else in the world because that all belongs to Hasbro, but it seems that Takara is slowly changing that with it's non-Hasbro US releases. ......because Takara is isolated to only sell in one country, while Hasbro has the whole world, often with Takara's stuff too. That huge difference in market size is why Hasbro's the one with the cash. True, but it's not helping them make the money Hasbro makes off of their stuff, either. The Japanese BW stuff was excellent, and many were easily better than the US stuff. I'd take a Ravage over Cheetor any day, and I'd take Big Convoy over monkey-bot too. I don't know the details for why Hasbro didn't want to use that stuff and insisted on crap like Injector, but to me it was the US that got the bad end of it. Maybe Hasbro was mad because a rival game maker (competing against Hasbro's "Hasbro interactive" division) bought into Konami? That's just speculation though. In 2000 the Japanese economy was in the toilet, import buyers such as myself saw it as Christmas all year since the yen value was so low I was getting stuff for as much as 50% off the US retail prices, and Japanese businesses suffered big-time. I'm sure the poor state of the Japanese economy, since Takara had no foreign sources of revenue at all, hit Takara the hardest. |
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Post by shaxper on Aug 29, 2003 6:08:32 GMT -5
1986 is when Hasbro introduced it's first Hasbro-designed TF's. Then there was the Action Masters. Then the Machine Wars, which did not show up in Japan until the BW series, in which many MW stuff was sold as BW stuff. Which? As far as I know, they were all Takara designs. Hasbro was even still using unproduced Diaclone modes at this point, and continued to do so until at least 1987. Actionmasters weren't really transformers, in my opinion. They didn't Transform. They were an attempt to make TFs cheaper and more action-figure oriented for an American market. Machine Wars were repaints of Japanese designs from previous years that had never been used in America. None of them were designed by Hasbro. Optimus Prime (originally "Thunderclash"), for example, was released in the UK during G1. Starscream was from the Japanese Zone series, etc. All were Takara designs. |
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Post by OmegaWeapon on Aug 30, 2003 5:11:58 GMT -5
Ones like Wheelie, the "new" triple-changers, and pretty much everything in 1986 that didn't recycle a mold was Hasbro's work. Notice how different they were from the Takara-designed ones?
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Post by shaxper on Aug 30, 2003 19:36:29 GMT -5
Ones like Wheelie, the "new" triple-changers, and pretty much everything in 1986 that didn't recycle a mold was Hasbro's work. Notice how different they were from the Takara-designed ones? That's not true. All of the triple changers (including Astrotrain, who was never released as a Diaclone) were designed by Takara. Some had been unproduced Diaclone molds, some were not. All were released by Takara. I can't specifically speak for Wheelie (I've never checked), but even the powermasters, headmasters, targetmasters, and micromasters of the following years were Takara designs. Any transformers toy marked Hasbro/Takara was designed by Takara. As for the difference in styles, I once thought that was because Hasbro took over too, but consider that even the Jumpstarters were late Diaclone releases. Sure enough, the change in design was more due to financial constraints and, later, Hasbro's demand for cheaper to produce toys than anything Hasbro directly designed. |
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Post by OmegaWeapon on Aug 31, 2003 6:05:21 GMT -5
I know about the powermasters, headmasters, etc. but still think Hasbro introduced it's own designs in 1986. The movie took two years to make, placing it's beginning in 1984. That means they needed the character design in place when they began work on it, and it was Hasbro and not Takara that had the movie made. That means it is Hasbro that had those characters in place, and not Takara.
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Post by shaxper on Aug 31, 2003 7:01:58 GMT -5
Actually, Marvel and Sunbow (I think that's the name) were hired by Hasbro to create the film. Production began in early 1985. The designs for the characters though, were created as the result of cooperation between artists and Takara engineers. I've actually thoroughly researched the history of the transformers for a part of my website (it's been two years in the works) and have spoken to many experts on this subject, as well as dug up facts and copyrights of my own. Hasbro did not design those toys. If you'd like to see for yourself, you can obtain the individual copyrights for many of those toys here: www.delphion.com/ Unfortunately, you have to pay to join and the copyrights are badly organized. Try searching under both "Hasbro" and "Takara". |
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