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Post by KingboyD on Oct 28, 2009 8:37:52 GMT -5
So I was thinking, if we created a Chogokin Hall of Fame (and I'm not necessarily suggesting we do), what would be your first nominations for inclusion? Mazinger Z, the first chogokin made? Chokinzoku? Voltes V DX? Are any others worthy of being in the first class? Maybe Raideen as the reported first transformer? What factors would you consider when making your decision? I think we would need to start with those figures that had the most impact on the hobby. I know that other manufacturers have made some grails. Are any of these worthy of being in the first class?
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Post by Erik Sjoen on Oct 28, 2009 10:48:41 GMT -5
Well, sorry to be so technical, but if you're going to call it the "Chogokin Hall of Fame" by right they should only be Popy. If you're going to include other companies one might use "Gokin" or "Japanese Robot" in the title. Just thinking..
I think ALL the Ga-01s, the Reideen (as you mentioned first gattai), Robocon and Mach Baron.
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Post by admin1 aka Ed on Oct 28, 2009 12:15:12 GMT -5
haa! LOL Gokinesque Hall of Fame...........echo........ fame fame fame. Areas that come to mind. Heft Novelty Aesthetics Execution --Raideen definately deserves your/the first nomination. --Mazinger / yes, definately. --I'll nominate the Robocon Mechanic  Cute, well executed, solid as heck, sparkling, interesting internal mechanism. |
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Post by KingboyD on Oct 28, 2009 13:41:00 GMT -5
Well, sorry to be so technical, but if you're going to call it the "Chogokin Hall of Fame" by right they should only be Popy. If you're going to include other companies one might use "Gokin" or "Japanese Robot" in the title. Just thinking.. That's what I originally was going to put, but I always (incorrectly, I suppose) use the two interchangeably. Correction acknowledged and title amended. At first I thought that this might be a little of a corny (and geeky) topic. But regardless, based on your answers, I'm glad I did. You guys chose some that I would not have necessarily have considered. I can definitely understand and agree upon Mazinger and Raideen, but I'm curious why you chose the Mach Baron and various Robocons. Is it just that you think that they were great toys, or that they influenced the market and direction of future production, or perhaps something else? Were these some of the more popular characters at that time? I think that often gets lost nowadays, since many of us don't know what shows were most watched back in the day. I do see tons of Mach Baron vinyls and models, so perhaps that indicates that it was pretty popular. Also, Robocon appealed to a younger group, so perhaps that too had its strong market. Can you guys elaborate? (Ed, you already provided an explanation, but why this over so many other great toys that might have those characteristics?) Maybe it also goes back to how everyone views HoFs. With basketball (and baseball too, although I don;t follow the sport as closely), there is always the question of who and who does not belong, and there are always criticisms of the choices made and how they were made. Also, I always thought that at some point there are too many elected to the HoF, and it cheapens the ones that truly stand out. Therefore, I would always try to limit to the creme de la creme. Also, in terms of initial nominations, I would think that they should be what pioneered and shaped the industry. Also, I guess you can look at it in terms of the toys themselves and the market they were produced for versus the toys as we now view them as collectibles. Chokinzoku, for example, was probably not successful when released due to costs (which is why no others in the series were produced), but it is monumental to collectors. Perhaps if such a HoF were to be created, there should be two separate areas based on these two viewpoints. |
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Post by blackdeath on Oct 29, 2009 11:46:38 GMT -5
Areas that come to mind.
Heft
Novelty
Aesthetics
Execution
you forget popularity and sales.
the best selling chogokin of all time is doraemon so I figure that should be in a hall of fame. also, daitetsujin 17u was a huge seller.
optimus prime and megatron should be included as well both as transformers and as car robot and microman robots that were influential.
voltron should also be up there as well.
all these toys have had a massive impact on the hobby, hwen you consider gokin toys that impacted the hobby.
ga-01 indeed as a landmark. the chokinzoku t-28 as it is in the smithsonian permanent collection. rare doesn't necessarily mean impact on the hobby....
perhaps the unifive godphoenix should be included as one of the toys that geeks wanted when they were kids and it is kind of a wet dream for those geeks.
the nomura yamato was a wet dream for geeks that watched star blazers in the states. i had one, growing up and the other kids were drooling over it.
any of the first run shogun warriors should be in the hall of fame too....
combattra as the first combiner....
gd01 as the first chogokin of the new era.
gz01 as the first SOC.
black reideen as the first special limited chogokin.
god marz as one of the most intricate as one chogokin with the most parts required to manufacture it.
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Post by corellianvette on Oct 29, 2009 15:39:31 GMT -5
Good suggestions. Is this the Vintage Robot Hall of Fame? Or are we just talking Diecast? Do the Jumbo's count? If so I agree with blackdeath you have to start thinking about modern toys, vinyls, etc.
Agree Mazinger has to be there in almost any definition
Also agree on Golion for longevity, WW impact
You might think about the Takatoku Valkyrie for much the same reason - design was ahead of it's time, show accuracy was pretty good, that mold has lasted a long time, etc.
SG-01 T28 should be there for sure, as stated above.
Grendizer/Goldorak was basically the Voltron of Europe, can't forget him.
How do we think about Microman in all of this? Would you put someting like Fortress Robot X, Great Robot Base, etc. as being predecessors of the TF line?
You may want to put some year restrictions on this, narrow down to die-cast, etc. then really put it to a vote. I think it would be cool to do it and then do some deep reviews/pictures/history on the Top 10! Go for it!
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Post by cholocarwash on Oct 29, 2009 18:37:52 GMT -5
I agree with corellianvette. if you are talking hall of famers, the Takatoku Valk has got to be on that list. it is sheer robotic perfection. no parts need to be added or removed for transformation. every mode is anime accurate. it was one of the best engineered and designed toys to ever be made.
Golion has to be on that list as well. it is probably the most recognized and loved robot worldwide. it gets overlooked many times just because they are pretty common. that just goes to show how popular Golion was. also the toy itself is a masterpeice.
You can't have a robot hall of fame without Tetsujin 28.
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Post by KingboyD on Oct 30, 2009 7:49:02 GMT -5
Definitely some good ideas. But my thinking is that you must be out of the game for a certain amount of time to be able to be considered for entry into any HoF. Therefore, that sort of excludes modern releases, although it has been a while since the first SoC was released. Maybe after enough of the older stuff was in, these would be considered. I don't know. Some of these are just too recent, and with new ones coming in all the time... I just feel that it takes time to fully appreciate any toy and get a true impression of its impact on the hobby. Also, if we were to start a HoF, you can't immediately fill it up. You have to start with the most important and worthy toys, and slowly add more to each "class" as each year (or half year) passes. At first I was thinking just one per period, but that would be too slow unless we lessened the time interval. So maybe two or three per class. In terms of specific toy suggestions, I think that the black Raideen as a first special edition toy is pretty significant (but then again, maybe its just because I love black variants ). That would probably warrant an early inclusion, although certainly not in the first class. The Valks, too, certainly deserve mention. blackdeath, you mentioned that doraemon was the best selling chogokin of all time. Is this true? How do you know this? I don't see it that often. Also, does anyone know what the first gokin toy exported out of Japan was? That would be of interest. A global impact is certainly important for expanding the hobby and ensuring the continued operation of a toy manufacturer. Certainly Grendizer is widely known. Its certainly the most popular character in France, certain Arabic regions I believe, and also extremely popular in Italy. Is Voltron (Golion) really that popular outside the US? |
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Post by blackdeath on Oct 30, 2009 12:13:49 GMT -5
according to the original definition these are toys that have had an impact on the hobby.
voltron is important even thoguh it is only a Japan and Us phenomenon. they are the two biggest economies int he world afterall.
grendizer I agree should be included as well as the 1/55 takatoku valks.
the doreamon chogokin has been mentioned numerous times in japanese media as the best selling chogokin of all time.
the origianl socs are already 10 years old, in terms of baseball, they would already be candidates or expired candiates for a HoF nomination.
perhaps the full armor gundam as the initial hcm mught be considered.
or the bike robo as the start of the machine robo line.
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Post by sketcher on Oct 30, 2009 12:42:12 GMT -5
SOCs don't count in my opinion, as they would not exist if not for the toys they are gucci representations of. No new toys should be included, in my opinion. Not saying that there arent some great new designs out there, just that they owe their existence solely to their older counterparts. This hobby would not exist without the greats from Popy, Bullmark, Takatoku and the lists goes on. Oh, and this thread is useless without pics!  |
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Post by admin1 aka Ed on Oct 30, 2009 21:49:03 GMT -5
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Post by admin1 aka Ed on Oct 30, 2009 21:52:29 GMT -5
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Post by admin1 aka Ed on Oct 30, 2009 21:58:47 GMT -5
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Post by blackdeath on Oct 31, 2009 0:13:15 GMT -5
what is defined as a new toy versus an old toy?
up to the 80's is old? up to the 90s? It seems arbitrary. If you are new to collecting, then the first toys you might be buying are the SoCs and they hold significance to you. If popy bullmark and takatoku were the precursors, you can still point to older things, marusan and other tins of t-28 and ohgon bat that are the real antiwues and precursors. I see age as being kinda irrelevant since the relative age is dependent on when the idividual collector started collecting.
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Post by blackdeath on Oct 31, 2009 0:29:00 GMT -5
if we stick to diecast then the tins are not applicable. but the soc question is interesting. if they are gucci versions of old toys only then I might agree that these toys are not all that relevant, but the series has characters that were not represented in the past. also the SoCs started the whole modern highg end chogokin colelcting craze so i think it is a relevant series that had a big impact on the hobby.
as much as mekanda is kinda rare and expensive, i don't think that it had any real impact on the hobby itself, much like a lot of rare expensive toys.
diecast is diecast and the SoC line is over 10 years old. so i think that some of them might be considred older toys.
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Post by KingboyD on Oct 31, 2009 7:41:51 GMT -5
Interesting points. I seem to agree with blackdeath. As long as you set a time limit, say 10 years (which still seems kinda new), then at least you had time to see the impact over time that a toy had on the hobby. As others said, GX-01 had a huge impact on the hobby. However, I'm not sure how many SOC collectors are also vintage collectors. Mostly, it seems to be one or the other. Also, I don't think that GX-01 belongs in the very first class that would be inducted into this fictitious HoF. Perhaps the second, but I think you really need to pay homage to the origins of these toys first.
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Post by cholocarwash on Oct 31, 2009 10:42:46 GMT -5
voltron is important even thoguh it is only a Japan and Us phenomenon. actually voltron's popularity extends much farther than US and Japan. voltron was very popular in Europe, South America,and all parts of Asia. in the US voltron was so popular that it paved the way for Hasbro to take on the Microman toys from Takara and remarket them as TFs. If it wasn't for that move by Hasbro, the Microman line of toys might have just ended with their initial run. then the TF line would not even exist. |
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Post by corellianvette on Oct 31, 2009 22:08:30 GMT -5
Considering that the toy was still KO'd until pretty recently, I'm pretty sure the GoLion/Voltron popularity went outside the US.
However, I'm not sure that Voltron influenced the Transformers - Both shows started airing at the end of 1984 - so I don't know if that influenced Hasbro...
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Post by cholocarwash on Nov 1, 2009 0:14:09 GMT -5
you are right. for some reason i thought TFs started in 1985 but it was actually 1984. i guess that shows what too much crack can do to a person. that reminds me, i need to score some crack for tonite......
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