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Post by xiombarg on Mar 27, 2010 14:49:00 GMT -5
I'll say straight up that I am not into the nude/semi nude girl figurine market. I view it as some weird sexual mutation of toy porn that has little or nothing to do with actual toy collecting yet gets marketed to geeks under a lame pretense of being a hybrid somewhere between art and action figures. BUT.. then there are figures that happen to be girls and are seriously cool toys and/or figures. Of course I'm stating some obvious things here, but I personally don't think it's that hard to draw the line between porn and toy. It's not like there isn't an obvious overriding sexual element that is used as the primary vehicle in anything that is pornographic. Pretty simple. So as for toys we've got some great stuff from all the companies we know and love, such as Figma, Revoltech, and for me personally I love the creativity behind the Busou Shinki line, and I feel Busou Shinki doesn't get the exposure it deserves. Konami makes some seriously cool chicks that are cute and have some great gear and killer weapons. And the Busou Shinki figures are cheap compared to porn figurines. I guess my point here is twofold. First being that I'm disappointed in how much the porn figurine market has made way into our hobby, and we are the ones buying this overpriced crap. I don't really care that it's being made, but that it's being sold side by side with toys. My second point is that there are fun toys that have cute girl sculpts and aren't wacked out, as in I wouldn't be embarrassed to have my daughter or mom see them, and this is what it's all about isn't it? Having fun and not getting sexually worked up over some doll that's bending over for the camera, right? Anyway, I guess that's my attempt at trying to keep it real. There's my diatribe for the week..
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Post by recca74 on Mar 28, 2010 20:59:20 GMT -5
Personally, I love Busou Shinki. I think Konami has actually done a good job of blending Action figures with a really cool MMO/Simulator gaming gimmick to keep things a little fresh. I think folks are missing out if they've not even attempted to play a few rounds of Battle Rondo let alone mess with your virtual Shinki in the Dirorama Studio. The software is easy to download and there are great tutorials on how to play and enjoy the game. In terms of the porn that has worked it's way into the toy scene, hasn't it always sort of been there or have I just not been noticing it? I know that, Eroge (erotic) gaming and figures seem to be the new "hotness" in terms of otaku fodder of late, but it just not something that has ever been a real draw for me as a collector. I'll admit that I do appreciate some of the Bome figs and the art by Shunya Yamash'ita, but I own virtually none of those figures. The most racy figures I even own are Pocco from Kaiyodo's Fraulein, and Lena from the Revo QB line. Japan can be a bit....sordid sometimes. LOL! I don't want to get this too twisted, I don't disparage those who do collect Eroge toys and I don't mind looking at a sexy toy every now and then. As a matter of fact the two figures I do own are just enough to throw viewers off and keep them on their toes. It's just that the hard core figs are not something I wish to spend my own cash on. Far be it from me to cast too much negative light on those who like Eroge toys, you just have to be careful though, as you can find yourself picking up some really questionable stuff. That's all. LOL! Squishy boobs anyone! *shakes head* That said, adult collectibles of the Lolicon and eroge sort seem to not be going away anytime soon, but personally it's something I'll leave to those that can appreciate it more than I do. I'll go play some Battle Rondo! ;D
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Post by Cyrano on Mar 28, 2010 23:55:03 GMT -5
I dunno, I don't collect any erotic figures but I don't have a problem with them either. I think it's important to remember that they're a subset of an adult (as in grown up) collecting hobby. It's not like we're dealing with cast-off (is that the right term?) power rangers or pokemon characters. Likewise, they're only sold in specialized places -- you're not going to find them at Wal-Mart or Toys-R-Us. My point here is that they're both designed for and sold to an adult market. They aren't "toys" in the same sense as a hotwheels car or a squirtgun are, just like Revoltechs and SOC figures aren't. Our whole hobby is a based on a nuanced definition of what a "toy" is, and in many ways the implications tied to the word make it a bad descriptor.
Anyway, sexuality is just part of what it means to be alive. I think it kinda makes sense that it would be reflected in our hobbies to a degree, sexual desire is just so fundamental. In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of an adult hobby that doesn't have a sexualized or erotic angle to it in some iteration.
But that's just my two cents.
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Post by xiombarg on Mar 29, 2010 10:52:22 GMT -5
Cyrano, I have to agree with you pointing out that these figures are made for a specialty market of adult collectors and adult collector stores/sites. Perhaps it's just that it's so far from away from what I look for in this hobby that I find it really bizarre. Considering these figures are essentially dolls is a little odd to me as a colletor, but with the the added factor of being nude teen girls pushes the whole concept too far out there for me. In many cases it's not just that they are nude, it's that they are a$$ in the camera, spread eagle nude. If our collector sites and stores were selling something like Playboy, in many ways I would find this less strange, because then it is what it is. I hope you guys realize that I'm not driving for some solution to this, as if there is one, I'm really just putting this up as platonic debate.
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Post by magengar on Mar 29, 2010 11:03:15 GMT -5
I have nothing against Sexuality in any form; And I have nothing against mature "toy" genres aimed at adults, looking at it from a hentai perspective. There's more to it besides Hentai-- I'm just pointing out a single genre. But in this hobby I'll stick to my robots. LOL
Personally, I'm just not amused by erotic-looking action-figures resembling some sort of bubblegum pop erotica. I see that stuff, and what comes to my mind is Salor Moon-- the mall-- teenie boppers giggling at the dumbest things they think are funny-- --Brats-- Hannah Montanna-- MySpace-- ya know, those twinky things. I just find those things a waste of social life. That's just me, I'm only speaking for myself. But, hey, to each their own.
I'd collect a Sayaka figure only because she's a robot pilot and she is fully dressed-- and her character in the anime represents a self-respecting young lady with a good heart and a good head on her shoulders.
After seeing that new revoltech figure Queen Aludra, it confirms to me that I should just stay butch and stick to collecting Robots. ;D
zozo-Magengar
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Post by emerje on Mar 30, 2010 14:39:21 GMT -5
In terms of the porn that has worked it's way into the toy scene, hasn't it always sort of been there or have I just not been noticing it? There have always been statues, even as far back as the 80s (and probably even the 70s) they were making resin kits and garage kits. It's the shift into the realm of action figures that's fairly new. Revoltech Queen's Blade is what really pushed it the most, but even figma has their first nude figure coming soon. All mobip figures have rubber panties that are removable on the Little Busters figures, but glued on to the K-ON! figures. It's a growing trend that will likely grow in the coming years. Unless... There's a slim chance they might. There's a bill that's currently on hold until later this year that could effect that market. The bill basically would ban any sexualization of any characters that appears to be under the age of 18. Yes, we're talking imaginary characters in anime, manga, video games and what not, not real minors (that's still OK ). That includes simple fanservice like pantie shots and revealing swimwear, particularly if it's something that's accessible to children (as in, on TV or streamed online). It's a law that would basically cripple the Japanese entertainment industry including the merchandise market. While WE know there's a difference in demographic for these kinds of figures, it wouldn't take much for a lawmaker to say something like "toys are made for kids" and blur the line between a "toy" and a collectible. After all, just look at the video game market and how many kids play M rated games. So it's no surprise that a sizable number of major industry names, including ones known only for producing children's entertainment, are protesting the ban. It isn't expected to pass, but it could lead the way for variations in the future. Emerje
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Post by xiombarg on Mar 30, 2010 15:29:06 GMT -5
While it may be true that there were always statues, it's never been even remotely as prolific as it is now. Just looking at the opening page on amiami pretty much illustrates the current trend. In any given month I would bet that the percentage of girl figurines listed in all new products is roughly 50%, maybe even more.
I would suspect that any company making a profit from these figures is going to protest the ban. Companies almost never protest anything merely as a matter of principle.
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Post by emerje on Mar 30, 2010 22:29:03 GMT -5
Of course companies will (and did), but check the link, I'm talking about individuals, and some very major ones at that. Yudetamago (creators of Kinnikuman/Ultimate Muscle) Gosho Aoyama (Detective Conan) Rumiko Takahashi (Ranma 1/2, Inuyasha. Not to mention a woman) Mitsuru Adachi (mainly does manga about high school baseball) Tetsuya Chiba (Ash*ta no Joe boxing series and severa childrens series) Kenshi Hirokane (known mainly for the titles about business) Kaiji Kawaguchi (primarily does stories based on the military and politics) Makoto Kobayashi (mainly does adult comedies, sport titles, and the world famous "What's Michael?" cat manga) Keisuke Itagaki (Grapler Baki creator) Yoshikazu Yasuhiko (did historical manga for Jesus, Joan of Arc, Nero, and some Gundam manga) Yasuhiro Imagawa (director and script writer of many mecha titles including Giant Robo, Dunbine, G Gundam, Xabungle, Mazinger Z-Hen, and Tetsujin 28 2004) Yasuhiro Nightow (Trigun, Gungrave) Go Nagai (needs no introduction) And that's just a small list of the people in the industry that are opposing the bill. On top of that the companies opposing the ban include Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft. And yeah, it's true that the market for even statues has blown up quite a bit since the past I described, but Japan has become much more consumer oriented since back then, especially in the collectors market. Sculpting has improved, mass production has improved, the otaku culture it self has become less "in the closet" than back in the days of "Otaku no Video". You can get some really amazing looking stuff from UFO Catchers in Japan, I'm no stranger to the HLJ prize item sales. Emerje
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Post by TheMazingerZ on Mar 30, 2010 23:11:48 GMT -5
Are you guys refering to these figures?
I think they are way cool, as used above! ;D
}D
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Post by mechamasterj on Mar 30, 2010 23:20:02 GMT -5
hmm i think the prespecitve taken by xiombarg is highly influenced by his own traditions, moral values, ect ect. The fact is that in many countries nudity is no big deal. I lived in germany for over 5 years while i was a young teen. Nudity was quite open, you would see it in regular TV commercials (like soap commericals) in everyday magazines. Heck, in the summer, you could go to your local park and find pleny women sunbaithing topless.
Now japan may not be as laxed as Germany when it comes to nudity but its not as big of a deal either.
Honestly as emerje pointed out, fanservice has been around since i can even remember watching anime, in fact i think its decressed quite a bit over the years. I couldnt watch an anime with out seeing some nudity back in the days, now its more on pointless panty shots.
Another thing is what you consider to be porn........... even in our society partial nudity is far from porn, in fact you got to show a lot more then most animes to even be considered soft porn.
Also, you are relating your expierence with online shopping!! For the most part you wont see your chogokin next to a spread eagle hentai chick. They have thier places in most shops that sell them and you wont be seeing them side by side......... that and the fact that Japan does beleive that children shouldnt see everything till they reach a certain age....... Hell, even hentai and porn alike is still censored in japan through pixalation.
So no, Porn, as you put it, isnt taking over the industry, you are just being exposed to it more since you are deeper into the culture and shop on sites that are a bit more free so to speak since japan is all about thier little hentai chicks and sex does sell.
Saying all that, i do have a problem with the age thing and pointless panty shots. Just about all the characters and animes that portray this could easily make the girls legal and keep them in school (if need be) its pretty pathetic but its not my call. But hey we are talking about a culture that has panties in a vending machine........... though i think they are banned now lol
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Post by xiombarg on Mar 31, 2010 1:12:04 GMT -5
Ok, but mechamasterj even though many of your points may be correct let's keep it focused here. We're not talking about society at large, such as what takes place in fashion magazines, beaches, TV commercial, or really even my personal influences of traditions etc. I mean, I guess we could talk about these things, but the thread was more focussed on nude teenage figures that may or may not be considered pornographic. Whether these figures are classified as such or not, there is still a lot of them and they are nude or stippable teenage girls, and they are often featured on sites such as amiami or figure review blogs more or less side by side with the robot and mecha figures of our hobby. And this was my original point, that I'm not sure I like the way it has become an associated part of our hobby. Considering the fact that we are talking about it right now, and that girl figures and our robots are frequently featured together and not just on online shopping sites, but also on blogs and review sites such as Danny Choo and all Wonderfest site coverage which has also evolved over the last decade featuring more strippable girl figures with each passing year. I don't know if this means its necessarily taking over, but it seems more prevalent, and often being made by companies that didn't make girl figures at all ten years ago. What I'm trying to say is that discrediting perception as not having enough worldly experience is one thing, but that still doesn't discount the actual facts.
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Post by mechamasterj on Mar 31, 2010 22:06:04 GMT -5
True xiombarg..... i was thinking more in general terms and not how you put it. Now that you put it this way, I do see what your saying. I would like to see more male charaters being made then all this Moi crap myself. But sex sales and boy is it selling which is why you are seeing more and more of it and why everyone and their mother are jumping band wagon. Its like everything else though.... when something becomes really popular, everyone wants in on the action.
There is one thing i have to point out though, busou shinki has a lot to do with prepubescent girls (although flat chested they do fill that niche fetish as well) soooooooooo you have fallen victim my friend, in your own special way lol!!
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Post by xiombarg on Apr 1, 2010 0:07:31 GMT -5
Well I'm as much a sucker for cute chick as anyone, and I'll be the first to admit that a kick a$$ beauty with awesome gear is that much more tempting to purchase, but for me there is an obvious line of something that sells itself because its cool and cute vs. something that sells itself by dropping its pants to get a hormonal reaction. But of course, that is how I distinguish it.
Maybe the best example for me of cute and cool without being exploitative is Drossel. Cute, cute figure, but freakin cool too, and looks like she belongs in what my collection is all about. I don't know if Busou Shinki fit as perfectly as drossel, but they don't feel out of place either.
On the other hand, if I were to put these girl figures in question among my collection shelf, it would be like a Playboy in a comic book collection. In form they might be the same, but the functional dynamic couldn't be more obviously different, yet it seems the industry is sort of mushing these two dynamics together as if they have sort of affinity.
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Post by mechamasterj on Apr 1, 2010 13:54:56 GMT -5
I dunno japan has been mixing the two for years with great success! You can think of it like this: car with model!! So you can take that concept. It works more for the Jp market cuz toys are not just geared to pre teens but older crowds as well! Though I looked at an rc mag the other day and was very surprised to see cute models showcasing them... I found it extremly funny. Heck another example is booth babes for video games or electronics.
I see your points but sex sales that's the only way you can look at it. And our mecha has been housing fan service since I can remember!
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Post by southpawdragon on Apr 2, 2010 1:03:25 GMT -5
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Post by magengar on Apr 2, 2010 12:38:10 GMT -5
I agree. But then look on the bright side: At least they didn't make a Cougar line. ;D zozo-Magengar
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Post by mechamasterj on Apr 2, 2010 23:05:01 GMT -5
lol well if that didnt put a nail in the coffin lol
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Post by southpawdragon on Apr 2, 2010 23:13:22 GMT -5
yeah who's going to buy those figures and when import customs reads it and it says half age girls ...lol
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Post by xiombarg on Apr 3, 2010 12:09:43 GMT -5
I hear that Queen's Blade is coming out with a new kitchen playset with fridge and sink accessories. This is what Queen's Blade really needed. I hear there is a Malibu Beach playset coming out next year. I'm stoked!
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Post by kencoesta on Apr 6, 2010 10:33:59 GMT -5
Personally, I more than "just don't care" for the nakey figures and I'm probably leaning more towards being against them (there, I said it ^___^ - for several reasons. 1) I haffta scroll way more when I'm shopping. 2) I can't share any of these sites (shopping/reviews) with my sons or nephew, because there's plastic boobies every other image. 3) As far as "traditions" go, I assume we're talking about Judeo/Christian values that's quite prevalent here in the West. Now, whether or not you personally believe in "The Enemy" and his tricks and snares, I think we can all agree that sexualizing minors isn't a good thing. And no, I don't think the Eroge figs are being marketed to kids, but they certainly aren't being kept from them. Speaking to the bill to ban such things in our hobby, I think that's a completely nutless way to go about "saving our children". I wonder if this guy ever watched a single hour of Nickelodeon programming? Has he ever seen Miley Cyruss? I suppose the nebulous anime abstract is a much easier target than , oh say... VIACOM. Perfect example: My oldest son is 6. He's in Kindergarten. In the cafeteria, right beside the cash register, is a poster for milk. There's Miley, sorta reclining in some hay with her legs spread and kinda hiked up and she's got white stuff all around her mouth. GOT MILK? WTF?!? Another quick example: At the park... kids running around... there's a little girl, maybe 9 or 10. She's wearing a t-shirt, with a full sized graphic of a bustee on it. I say again... WTF?!? Would you buy lingerie for your 10 year old daughter? No? Then why buy a pretend one? Why was that even made? Who thought that was a good idea? C'mon people! Sorry to get back off the exact subject, but it's related. ^_^;
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