A question for US, Japan and Hong Kong based collectors

[Watari]

Ever since the fiasco I experienced last week when I purchased GX-70 Maz, I'm wondering if I should quit the hobby already because of how stores are treating their customers regarding factory defects here in our area.

I mean, is it wrong to demand that we get a figure without imperfections, scratches, paint rubs, chips, etc? Do these stores think that the money we spend on these so called "adult collectibles" are not worth a crap to warrant a "no return no exchange" policy?

Which brings me to my question, do other retailers in your respective countries have the same policy regarding paint problems and scratches, that you can't have them replaced? They even have the nerve to say that it's a "factory defect", and yet they will tell you to f### off 'cause them's the breaks.

Do you guys suck it up and just learn to live with that nagging scratch or paint chip on your brand new $150 or $400 figure? I don't think I can.


NOTE: Before somebody says just look for another retailer or just get your figures online, let me answer that real quick Pretty much all the retailers here have the same policy, apparently they all have the same supplier. Regarding online purchases, I quit doing that years ago since I'd rather see and check the item in person first before paying for it, been burned several times already and I've learned my lesson. But the return policy of some online stores are awesome, like HLJ, although its a bit tedious. Right now, online is starting to sound like the better option, either that or quit

[supergetterv]

First off, I don't get the luxury of opening and inspecting before buying. Second, there just isn't that many hobby retail stores in the USA that do carry these types of collectible. Third, they wouldn't allow a customers to open up all boxes to inspect and pick the best one. Even at trade events, like toy show or conventions, dealers aren't going to let people open and inspect before buying. You can buy and return the item if you don't like it.

It really depends on the type of defect. Broken right out of the box, I will immediately contact the retailer for a exchange. If exchange is not a option, I will seek a refund. BBTS has great customer service for exchanges and replacement parts. If I received a crush box, I would seriously ask for a discount or a replacement. Minor scratches, paint problems, those kind of stuff I can bypass and ignore. Kinda gives my figure a uniqueness. Paint problem as long as it's not too bad, I can ignore. But if there are any defects to the head or face, I would definitely ask for a replacement or exchange. Cause the head and face is the main focal point whenever I look at the figure. My MP-28 HotRod came with a big chip to the lower left side of his chin. It was really noticeable. I got it from amiami and was really surprised that they actually sent me a replacement head. $300 SoC Voltron, when I inspected it up close, on the right side of the black lions month, silver chrome area, there seems to be some scuffing, smudges or maybe tarnishing, not noticeable until I get close enough. Not something that bothers me so much that I need an exchange. $200 MP Megatron came out of the box with paint chips to both part of the lower legs, worst to the right side. The thighs have scratches and the left arm, lots of scratches. Lots of minor paint problems. But none of it seems like a major problem. The figure itself is fine. And all 4 face options were painted nicely, no major QC problem. So again, I don't want to deal with exchange. And transforming this figure also scratches up the paint anyway.

I don't know. Each collector is different and has OCD levels that differ and different levels of expectations. For me, my tolerance is high and I don't expect perfection from mass production. Sure, I'm happier when I get something that is near flawless. But at the same time, minor stuff like small paint blobs to the back of a figure or paint chips on the back leg isn't gonna bother me. Cause I am not going to display the figure with the back or the small defect facing me.

[Watari]

Thanks for chiming in bro

Nice to hear that Amiami has superior customer service, and I have heard good things about BBTS too.

I also agree with regards to the head being the main focal point of a figure, that's why it's the first thing I check every time I get a new robot

But what I really wanted to know was WHAT IF those retailers told you that they can't help you out or have the item exchanged even if the figure has, let's say, a scratched head or messy paint right out of the box? Or are they obligated to help you because of local laws?

[mpchi]

I live in US. While the stores here have great return policy, not so much on collectors' toys since you rarely find them locally and they don't normally open it up for inspection. Its sort of an unspoken rule that you are testing your luck buying a sealed item. And rarely you find mom & pop stores like in HK or Japan that you directly deal with an owner that cater to your inspections. They just don't do that sort of thing here in stores I know. However, they do let you return or exchange it if something is very wrong or broken. But a scratch or two may not be good enough. However, if it happen to be big stores like ToysRUs, then you can return all you want. Do try shopping on a few of the online shops with great customer service. Don't just call it quit because of some bad experiences with the shops.

Me personally, I have lowered my expectation on buying anything in perfect condition. You are totally right about expecting a perfect toy after paying hundreds of dollars. However, we are in an imperfect world and sh*t happens. I believe I am plaqued with defects throughout my years (more like a couple decades now) of toy collecting. Result in figuring out a few techiques to fix toys of my own. They just almost never come in perfect. And when you thought we should demand perfection for a couple hundred dollar worth item, how about a few hundred dollars worth furnitures? (paint scratch, some knicks here & there) How about thousands dollar bed? (the legs alignment slightly off) What of thousands dollar ring? (some sculpt imperfect on the platinum) How about a 30 grand brand new car? (yup, a few paint scratch and scratched dashboard, but its your special factory built one alright) What about a brand new condo? (yup, cracked concrete garage floor, sloppy paint on door trims, imperfect carpet spots...etc.)...... it never ends. So when the world keeps telling me perfection is very hard to find, I adapt and change my eagerness to find it (not to mention I can be the one scratching up my toy too). It is sad we often don't get what we expected to, but it can be a minor thing if you can change your perspective a bit, and just focus more on the enjoyment of the toy, scratched or not. That's my 2 cents.

[S_Gokin]

im not from the places above but im in a sharing mood lol

in my country there isn't hardly any stores that specialize in this hobby, of course you can find figures for video games characters but figures for classic characters are very rare, however we have those (thieves) in Instagram with their insane prices im talking about atleast x2 increase from the market price, i dont deal with them at all so i dont know about them and i dont want to know

but i heard in Dubai there is couple of good stores which is more like agents not dealerships or regular stores, and they have good support if you have any problems one of my friends got a bad Toynami Voltron and they replaced it with ease, not just that they even asked to you want refund or another unit ?

the main idea here, the cost of this hobby is getting higher ever day so with that increase in price we want increase in quality or at lease the same level of quality with no QCs i understand mistakes happen but still when you take our work hard money we want your work hard product

[Watari]

Thanks for the inputs everyone.

Like mpchi said, it's either we accept the fact that some of our purchases will be less than perfect right out of the box. OR we can just go after vintage pieces. At least with those, imperfections are always expected

I also agree with S_Gokin, I just can't get past the notion of modern collectible figures being marred straight from the factory, I mean that's why we're paying premium prices right (aside from the licensing rights). It's not our fault that the figure left their factory with substandard quality control, so why punish us for demanding perfection? It's not like they mentioned anywhere in the box or instructions to expect "battle damage" even before touching the figure

[mpchi]

Just opened an X-Plus Shin Godzilla vinyl I paid a pretty penny preordered. Guess what? A limpy tail with 1/4 inch gap I can't close, and a nice full thumb print on its right shoulder paint Things like this happens even when we speak! Talk about great timing. Told you perfection is hard to find. Time to superglue that limpy tail...

[Watari]

May 11, 2017 0:01:22 GMT -5 mpchi said:

Just opened an X-Plus Shin Godzilla vinyl I paid a pretty penny preordered. Guess what? A limpy tail with 1/4 inch gap I can't close, and a nice full thumb print on its right shoulder paint Things like this happens even when we speak! Talk about great timing. Told you perfection is hard to find. Time to superglue that limpy tail...

Oh crud, sorry to hear that

Seems like getting a nice quality figure these days is like winning the lottery

[zankantou]

Watari, we all want things to be perfect. However, in reality that's not always the case. Toy sellers/stores are not the ones to be blamed, they have no control towards production as well as the quality check (QC) for the products itself whatsoever; in a way, they are victims themselves. Of course, shops who do NOT offer you any assistance and tell you to literally f**k off is another story. Products are sealed when distributed to them, and they have no idea what it is like inside. The last thing they want is to have angry customers blaming them for imperfections or defects or missing parts that will give them and their business a bad name. (Speaking for sellers who are serious about their business and not those crappy ones out there) When buyers like us have problems with a particular purchase, we usually go to the seller(s) for help. Likewise, sellers/shops who genuinely want to help their customers, they have to contact their distributor for help. I can tell you from my experience as both a buyer and seller, that 'trip' (specifically Bandai) is a total nightmare. If you expect them to resolve your problem(s) professionally or within a timely manner for replacement of spare parts or whatever you are seeking, expect yourself to erupt and than explode; because you will be dealing with tons of d!ck moves. So you see, it's not just buyers who get that kind of frustration but sellers too. Most of the toy manufactures and distributors (Again, specifically with Bandai) have the worst after-sales service you can get.

Let me share with you a few of my experiences.

I collect Saint Seiya figures, specifically Bandai's Myth Cloth EX ones and they are like premium products due to their price. So it is only natural to expect good QC correct? Years ago I got myself an EX Gemini Saga (Surplice) and realized that the parts on the arms and legs were all all the same. (e.g. left parts were right, right; right parts were left, left) I contacted my seller (I got it from him) and he had to contact the distributor. And you know what? It took them 2 weeks to get back to him. Fine. They wanted pictures and receipt and everything. All provided and waited another week and they told us (me and my seller) that it will take at least 7-8 months before anything could be done. We are speaking of Bandai here, a big conglomerate company, and our favorite go-to for our beloved collections giving us BS. What's new? It turns out that almost every EX Gemini Saga (Surplice) had this problem and I wasn't the only one who needed help. Bandai, same treatment and my seller was speechless. So we decided to sort this on our own. Since most of the parts were mixed up, all we had to do was to contact other buyers and swap the parts to fix the problem. Till this day people who buy this item still face this problem.

Last year, I got myself a Complete Selection Modification Kamen Rider Kabuto Belt. I only used it 'once' and already saw cracks on the inside of the belts. Luckily they were not deep enough to rupture anything. Guess what? This is a website exclusive item from Bandai, and same old excuse. At the end, I just kept it because according to their reply, I might get a replacement that may be equal or worse than my current one. This time around there were only a few collectors like me who had that problem. Luckily the main toy the Zector was ok. Defect or not, have to live with it.

I got a S.H.Figuarts x Ultraman Ultrman Ace recently and to my dismay, the right eye had a defect. It's like the inside is smudged. There is no way to fix it since the head is like sealed and you can't open it. Again, another website exclusive item with a premium price. I don't have a receipt for it and I can't seek help from the seller; and I truly do not want to wait 8 months for a head replacement. So I know have an ACE with a smudged right eye. Wonderful isn't it?

As for selling, so far I haven't receive or had any problems from my customers. Thank god And so far, only Sentinel HK has been giving out good after-sale service. (well at least for now anyways)

While their service maybe utter trash and we may get a few defect here and there, Bandai still produces collectibles that we want; and just to be fair their qualities are alright.

So Watari, I'm sure you are not alone in this. We go and spend our money on collectibles, it's natural for us to expect something in return. However, I hope you understand it's not the sellers/shops fault when it comes to defects. Like I mentioned before, they too face this kind of problem when they deal with their distributors. If you want to dabble with this sort of thing, it's either a hit or miss.

[Watari]

Wow, thanks for the great insight zankantou, didn't realize that Bandai after sales sucks so much

Can't blame the suppliers and retailers then for being strict when it comes to item returns.

If only the shop I went to explained why they can't offer me a replacement instead of giving me the shaft, I would have been sympathetic and considered just keeping the figure. Anyway, it's their loss, goes to show why good customer service is critical to the success of any business.

[zankantou]

Watari, did that shop you went to really tell you to f**k off? lol Imagine they gave you some bad service for you to come to that thinking. Yeah man, their loss. There are other good sellers/shops out there worthy of your time. Just don't let one incident ruin your collection experience.. hey, we only live once after all If we have the luxury to collect these things then we should go for it

[Watari]

May 11, 2017 5:39:39 GMT -5 zankantou said:

Watari, did that shop you went to really tell you to f**k off?

Hehe, not literally but sort of felt like that

And I guess you're right, should just forget about it and move on. And try to avoid punk @$$ retailers

[faelon]

May 11, 2017 4:33:07 GMT -5 zankantou said:

Watari, we all want things to be perfect. However, in reality that's not always the case. Toy sellers/stores are not the ones to be blamed, they have no control towards production as well as the quality check (QC) for the products itself whatsoever; in a way, they are victims themselves. Of course, shops who do NOT offer you any assistance and tell you to literally f**k off is another story. Products are sealed when distributed to them, and they have no idea what it is like inside. The last thing they want is to have angry customers blaming them for imperfections or defects or missing parts that will give them and their business a bad name. (Speaking for sellers who are serious about their business and not those crappy ones out there) When buyers like us have problems with a particular purchase, we usually go to the seller(s) for help. Likewise, sellers/shops who genuinely want to help their customers, they have to contact their distributor for help. I can tell you from my experience as both a buyer and seller, that 'trip' (specifically Bandai) is a total nightmare. If you expect them to resolve your problem(s) professionally or within a timely manner for replacement of spare parts or whatever you are seeking, expect yourself to erupt and than explode; because you will be dealing with tons of d!ck moves. So you see, it's not just buyers who get that kind of frustration but sellers too. Most of the toy manufactures and distributors (Again, specifically with Bandai) have the worst after-sales service you can get.

Let me share with you a few of my experiences.

I collect Saint Seiya figures, specifically Bandai's Myth Cloth EX ones and they are like premium products due to their price. So it is only natural to expect good QC correct? Years ago I got myself an EX Gemini Saga (Surplice) and realized that the parts on the arms and legs were all all the same. (e.g. left parts were right, right; right parts were left, left) I contacted my seller (I got it from him) and he had to contact the distributor. And you know what? It took them 2 weeks to get back to him. Fine. They wanted pictures and receipt and everything. All provided and waited another week and they told us (me and my seller) that it will take at least 7-8 months before anything could be done. We are speaking of Bandai here, a big conglomerate company, and our favorite go-to for our beloved collections giving us BS. What's new? It turns out that almost every EX Gemini Saga (Surplice) had this problem and I wasn't the only one who needed help. Bandai, same treatment and my seller was speechless. So we decided to sort this on our own. Since most of the parts were mixed up, all we had to do was to contact other buyers and swap the parts to fix the problem. Till this day people who buy this item still face this problem.

Last year, I got myself a Complete Selection Modification Kamen Rider Kabuto Belt. I only used it 'once' and already saw cracks on the inside of the belts. Luckily they were not deep enough to rupture anything. Guess what? This is a website exclusive item from Bandai, and same old excuse. At the end, I just kept it because according to their reply, I might get a replacement that may be equal or worse than my current one. This time around there were only a few collectors like me who had that problem. Luckily the main toy the Zector was ok. Defect or not, have to live with it.

I got a S.H.Figuarts x Ultraman Ultrman Ace recently and to my dismay, the right eye had a defect. It's like the inside is smudged. There is no way to fix it since the head is like sealed and you can't open it. Again, another website exclusive item with a premium price. I don't have a receipt for it and I can't seek help from the seller; and I truly do not want to wait 8 months for a head replacement. So I know have an ACE with a smudged right eye. Wonderful isn't it?

As for selling, so far I haven't receive or had any problems from my customers. Thank god And so far, only Sentinel HK has been giving out good after-sale service. (well at least for now anyways)

While their service maybe utter trash and we may get a few defect here and there, Bandai still produces collectibles that we want; and just to be fair their qualities are alright.

So Watari, I'm sure you are not alone in this. We go and spend our money on collectibles, it's natural for us to expect something in return. However, I hope you understand it's not the sellers/shops fault when it comes to defects. Like I mentioned before, they too face this kind of problem when they deal with their distributors. If you want to dabble with this sort of thing, it's either a hit or miss.

Just as a counterpoint to your story. It's likely not Bandai per se. I had a similar issue with an SHFiguarts Figure I got from HLJ. The figure came in with two left arms and some parts duped with others missing. I contacted HLJ. They responded by the next day. Told me what to send pictures of, the next day they had a response from bandai and a copy of the instruction or packing sheet from the item asking me to mark up specifically what parts were needed. I had the correct pieces and an intact figure within about 5 days. They offered to exchange it, but I declined as that involved shipping it back to Japan when I just needed the correct parts. So a lot of it will be what the distribution channel is. 

As a general rule each step of the process will only talk to their direct customers. They do not want to be dealing with their customers customers unless it is specifically manufacturers warranty. So you can be at the mercy not just of the merchant, but of his distributor. I got lucky HLJ gets direct from Bandai and has direct access to CS as a result. But only the larger volume merchants will get that. Now add to this a concept that collectors cannot grasp. It is what is known as "Acceptable Level of cosmetic defect". Things happen during shipping. Minor or miniscule scuffs and blemishes. No merchant or manufacturer will question true defect or shipping damage. An actual broken product. But minor paint blemishes? While these are critical to the focused collector, to the merchant that is pure loss. It is like a laptop with 1 bad pixel on the screen. The manufacturer says it must be X number of bad pixels per Y area of screen and will not replace for a single. So the merchant can either eat the cost of the laptop themselves or have an irate and unhappy customer. For most minor paint imperfections, on less it is something glaring such as the black gunk on some Voltrons or the above mentioned chipped faces, chances are the manufacturer will not be replacing that figure for the merchant or giving him credit back for it. They can't let you inspect each figure because that unseals the merchandise. As in it isn't "new" for the next guy. The truth is most merchants will likely give you the benefit of teh doubt, once, but if you become a regular at returning stuff for trivial or unreturnable reasons seeking the perfect specimen, well they are going to tell you to F off eventually. You are literally stealing from them in your quest for perfection. Using their credit lines to find your perfect robot and leaving a trail of unsellable merchandise in your wake. 

[Watari]

May 12, 2017 0:25:03 GMT -5 faelon said:

"Acceptable Level of cosmetic defect". Things happen during shipping. Minor or miniscule scuffs and blemishes. No merchant or manufacturer will question true defect or shipping damage. An actual broken product. But minor paint blemishes? While these are critical to the focused collector, to the merchant that is pure loss. It is like a laptop with 1 bad pixel on the screen. The manufacturer says it must be X number of bad pixels per Y area of screen and will not replace for a single. So the merchant can either eat the cost of the laptop themselves or have an irate and unhappy customer. For most minor paint imperfections, on less it is something glaring such as the black gunk on some Voltrons or the above mentioned chipped faces, chances are the manufacturer will not be replacing that figure for the merchant or giving him credit back for it. They can't let you inspect each figure because that unseals the merchandise. As in it isn't "new" for the next guy. The truth is most merchants will likely give you the benefit of teh doubt, once, but if you become a regular at returning stuff for trivial or unreturnable reasons seeking the perfect specimen, well they are going to tell you to F off eventually. You are literally stealing from them in your quest for perfection. Using their credit lines to find your perfect robot and leaving a trail of unsellable merchandise in your wake. 

Thanks for raising some very good points faelon, you learn something new everyday

But regarding "acceptable level of cosmetic defect", that's why I got pissed off in the first place. And comparing adult collectibles with consumer electronics was a nice analogy, but I kind of disagree with you. Before buying laptops, LED TVs, handheld consoles and smart phones, I distinctly recall the sales person telling me to check the screen first before leaving the store since the warranty doesn't cover a dead pixel or 2. And I remember reading that rule on some instruction booklets as well.

I wasn't aware that the same rule apply to collectible figures. Was I informed that scratches, paint rubs or paint chips will not be considered as defects when I decided to pay for it? Was it indicated in the box, instructions or Bandai's website that superficial blemishes will not be honored for returns? If it is, please enlighten me as I can't read Japanese.

And as I mentioned in my above post, if only the seller explained the situation instead of giving a straight up NO, I wouldn't have gotten sore about the whole thing. And that was my first and last time dealing with the SOB

[faelon]

If You have ever encountered an electronics merchant that willl let you open it in the store and inspect it pre purchase I would be amazed. Unless they are providing a specific service as part of the sale (such as configuring a cell phone) they typically do not allow the products to be opened in store.

and they do not have to lay out specifics or tell you on the packaging etc. the General standard is clearly defective product. Does it do what it is advertised to do? Something such as paint blemishes is a subjective judgement. It gets into customer satisfaction and expectation questions, but it does not necessarily indicate damage or defect unless it is physically damaged. And the manufacturer does communicate certain specifics through to those they deal directly with. The distributors and merchants. Customer Satisfaction issues are at the descretion of the merchant. They set those policies. From what you describe it is pretty clear that the local merchants did in fact communicate said policies. That's what "all sales are final" means. 

Just because it does not meet meet your expectations of perfection does not necessarily mean it is not within the boundaries of acceptable QC for the manufacturer. And they will not take product back based on subjective problems that are within their acceptable QC standards, because that immediately becomes a mechanism for merchants to return unsold merchandise under the pretense of defect. Essentially meaning the merchants are simply selling the stuff on consignment with no risk. Needless to say it doesn't work that way. at least not for these sorts of industries. (Yeah big box merchants can sometimes leverage that kind of deal, but no one that would carry this stuff can or would.) 

[Watari]

May 12, 2017 20:00:10 GMT -5 faelon said:

If You have ever encountered an electronics merchant that willl let you open it in the store and inspect it pre purchase I would be amazed. Unless they are providing a specific service as part of the sale (such as configuring a cell phone) they typically do not allow the products to be opened in store.

Believe it or not, it's common practice here, and I think it's a good one since the merchant and customer gets this first level of protection against defective merchandise

May 12, 2017 20:00:10 GMT -5 faelon said:

and they do not have to lay out specifics or tell you on the packaging etc. the General standard is clearly defective product. Does it do what it is advertised to do? Something such as paint blemishes is a subjective judgement. It gets into customer satisfaction and expectation questions, but it does not necessarily indicate damage or defect unless it is physically damaged. And the manufacturer does communicate certain specifics through to those they deal directly with. The distributors and merchants. Customer Satisfaction issues are at the descretion of the merchant. They set those policies. From what you describe it is pretty clear that the local merchants did in fact communicate said policies. That's what "all sales are final" means

Not speaking for everybody, but to me, the "all sales are final" rule are for suckers. I mean, if the merchant is HONEST enough, he should at least give the customer a heads up right so he can decide if he still wants to push through with the purchase or not. Communicating that policy AFTER the purchase has been made makes the customer a MUCH BIGGER sucker, which I'm not I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to be treated that way, thank God for consumer laws

May 12, 2017 20:00:10 GMT -5 faelon said:

Just because it does not meet meet your expectations of perfection does not necessarily mean it is not within the boundaries of acceptable QC for the manufacturer. And they will not take product back based on subjective problems that are within their acceptable QC standards, because that immediately becomes a mechanism for merchants to return unsold merchandise under the pretense of defect. Essentially meaning the merchants are simply selling the stuff on consignment with no risk. Needless to say it doesn't work that way. at least not for these sorts of industries. (Yeah big box merchants can sometimes leverage that kind of deal, but no one that would carry this stuff can or would.)

Yeah, sad but true, but we still have rights as consumers. Manufacturers may not care as long as they're hitting their profit margins, but in the end, it's us who are bringing in the money. It's really up to you if you want to settle for less, but some of us don't

[faelon]

Most manufacturers do care. And set their QC standards pretty high. At least commensurate to the pricing and marketspace of the item. But they don't base their standards on those of the most obsessive perfection seeking autists that can often be found in fan and collector communities. Most manufacturers will never question damage, at least to the product itself. (Their views on packaging are at best not the same as the collector community. They view the packaging as their to protect the product itself, not as the product, and may be less than sympathetic to complaints of scuffed packaging. In their eyes, that's what it's there for.) And most merchants will do what they can within reason to satisfy a customer. The "All Sales are Final" policy is not that common, and is generally a bad policy unless the merchant is sourcing stuff through a path he cannot return. But similarly the myth of "the customer is always right" is just that, a myth. The saying was taken wildly out of context and has been used as a club to beat and abuse Customer Service staff for generations.

[xtrlowz75]

For me, if it doesn't come scratched, I scratch it with a little sand paper. Or drop it once to get that first broken part. It really reduces my stress of damaging it further since I already damaged it. Perfection is overrated. 😄

[Watari]