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Post by potchip on May 24, 2006 5:23:34 GMT -5
... It is a simple fact that this MG has many more external details than the PG. Just look at any pictures of them- they're not even in the same ballpark... ataru: that's all i wanted to hear hehe. dude you are basing your opinion on "pictures" you have seen hehe. have you "built" every PG and their corresponding MG? if you haven't, it is REALLY WRONG AND MISLEADING for you to judge the whole line just base on your observation of "pictures". you can argue with a 1000 word dizzying essay on the weakness of PGs, but without building and experiencing the lines (PG and MG) and building every model with individual notes on the internal frame design and complexity, number of working parts and points of articulation, the design and breakdown of the armor (working mechanism if any), extra gimmicks (like led lightings and spring/suspension system in the internal frame), and so on- i believe your opinion is without basis, and just a pigment of your imagination (honestly ;D) tis plain and simple bro- IF YOU HAVEN'T BUILD EM, DON'T JUDGE THEM. as always, best regards dude ;D So, based on this rather assertive opinion (fact status pending on the basis of the following question). And the fact that somebody's been posting random topics with images from dalong.net.... Have you "build and experienced all the lines (PG and MG) and building every model with individual notes on the internal frame design and complexity, number of working parts and points of articulation, the design and breakdown of the armor (working mechanism if any), extra gimmicks (like led lightings and spring/suspension system in the internal frame), and so on"?? Don't judge.
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Post by f360 on May 24, 2006 8:54:40 GMT -5
Like you, I also don't want to start any argument. Since I just want people to have the correct information so they can decide on what to get too.
And I did not take your words out of context. For the MG OYW RX-78-2 comparing to the PG RX-78-2, a statement such as this "lot more external detail and vastly superior articulation than the PG" is still incorrect and misleading.
Please tell me what detail are you seeing that makes this MG has many more external details than the PG, so much that they're not even in the same ballpark. I mean what do you count as external Detail?? I count the hands, fingers, openable haches and compartments in the head, fore arms, Shouders, elbows, Chest, skirt, thrusters, backpack, thighs, knees, amor joints, etc as detail. what if I can see the detail internal frame parts from the gaps and joints of the external armor , would that count as external detail too since it's exposed?? because all of these the Perfect Grade wins hands down over the Master Grade. Please don't tell me you are talking about the panel lines because if that is the case then there's nothing to talk about because your MG OYW RX-78-2 is base on the PS2 game design, while the PG is base on the Anime/manga/previous models and toys which does not have that much panel lines.
"vastly superior articulation" To make it short the MG OYW RX-78-2 have shoulder joints that that counts as "better in Articulation" for allowing it to do more postes with the arms that involve the shoulders going up. And because it does not have a core fighter it's waist have more freedom. It's better Articulation but not " vastly superior". Which is why I was calling this as misleading.
I know the Newer MG Titian Ver has a upgrade waist,, but you notice I was talking about the AEUG one which did not. And thigh armor sliding movement doesn't count as articulation since it doesn't not improve the postability of the leg one bit. you can do the same post without the sliding amor plate design. that's why I consider that as part of extra external/internal DETAIL. I'm surprise that you even use a Shoulder joint as a comparasion to this. I'm not just focusing on the PG MKII, it was because you brought it up about the sliding thigh plates.
And since you're talking about the PG Zeta now. I fully aggree with you one that one, for a PG it's articulation is not good. this is where you should've use your ""vastly superior articulation" comment on the comparasion of MG Zeta ver2.0 to PG Zeta.
Yes, if MG and PG were both given the same amount of detail then the one with the smaller size will LOOK more detail. And I too understand the attraction of having a larger model even though I prefer to have smaller more compact ones with as much detail as possible , no room to place them. Which is why I started collecting HCM-pros.
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Post by potchip on May 24, 2006 11:06:25 GMT -5
ataru: read in context, it was not directed to you, rather it was a direct quote thrown back to mannyD.
Also... "And thigh armor sliding movement doesn't count as articulation since it doesn't not improve the postability of the leg one bit. you can do the same post without the sliding amor plate design."
This statement would be true if the same range of movement can be achieved without compromising the look. But by the very nature of that sliding action it is obvious it is not possible (unless tip of armour pieces can somehow disappear into the Nth dimension when they obstruct the joint).
In fact, this feature of Mk2 ver2.0 was not new. The MG implementation (armour movement to accomodate articulation)first appeared on MG Guncannon's knee. Even if it was pioneered by old PGs. Ataru's point still stands: from an engineering point of view, current MGs can be viewed as better engineered (as in articulation without compromising mecha design) compared to older PGs.
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Post by mannyD on May 24, 2006 23:55:19 GMT -5
I have in fact handled and built PGs before, but in order for you to think what you are thinking, I thought you must not have handled the MGs I'm talking about. I'm not going to go tell you to buy them, so I suggested you look at the pictures. Get it? So, since I have built them, I'll take your "tis plain and simple bro- IF YOU HAVEN'T BUILD EM, DON'T JUDGE THEM." to mean "ok, since you have built them then feel free to judge them." yeah! i'm very sorry ataru, please if you will allow bro, can you post pictures of the MGs (and PGs) you've handled and built. it might convince me that PGs are indeed inferior to MGs, design and articulation wise. like you said: "If the pictures are good, it can be determined 100% by photographs" tnx in advance, gudluck ;D
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Post by mannyD on May 24, 2006 23:56:54 GMT -5
So, based on this rather assertive opinion (fact status pending on the basis of the following question). And the fact that somebody's been posting random topics with images from dalong.net.... Have you "build and experienced all the lines (PG and MG) and building every model with individual notes on the internal frame design and complexity, number of working parts and points of articulation, the design and breakdown of the armor (working mechanism if any), extra gimmicks (like led lightings and spring/suspension system in the internal frame), and so on"?? Don't judge. hehe what is thrown back at me? j/k bro dalong.net? i love this wonderful site. i was drawn back to this hobby by discovering this great site and seeing dalong's database of pictures. dalong rules baby!!!
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Post by mannyD on May 25, 2006 3:01:18 GMT -5
ataru, again using ur brilliant deductions: ...mannyD, detail is a 100% visual concept. If the pictures are good, it can be determined 100% by photographs... ...If you go down that road the PG Zaku loses to the HGUC and the PG Strike loses to the 1/100 HG of all things... ok we'll use pictures from dalong's site for comparison (sorry potchip, i love this site): PG Zaku would loose to this (HGUC Zaku): and PG Strike would loose to this (HG Strike): People were thinking PGs were generally the best, and this is absolutely wrong. brilliant! but i don't think so, not in my dreams bro hehe. a 1000 word dizzying essay? i don't think so bro. even my 5 year old son can tell me which is better hehe. ;D
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Post by f360 on May 25, 2006 9:09:52 GMT -5
ataru: read in context, it was not directed to you, rather it was a direct quote thrown back to mannyD. Also... "And thigh armor sliding movement doesn't count as articulation since it doesn't not improve the postability of the leg one bit. you can do the same post without the sliding amor plate design." This statement would be true if the same range of movement can be achieved without compromising the look. But by the very nature of that sliding action it is obvious it is not possible (unless tip of armour pieces can somehow disappear into the Nth dimension when they obstruct the joint). In fact, this feature of Mk2 ver2.0 was not new. The MG implementation (armour movement to accomodate articulation)first appeared on MG Guncannon's knee. Even if it was pioneered by old PGs. Ataru's point still stands: from an engineering point of view, current MGs can be viewed as better engineered (as in articulation without compromising mecha design) compared to older PGs. If you don't understand on what I was taking about I was comparing the articulation of the Leg on a PG and a MG. I guess a pic is worth a thousand words. And what's with this "Ataru's point still stands" from an Engineering point of view thing" I don't remember disagreeing with that.., did he even say something in those words?? Besides, of course the newer designs of today are suppose to be better than the old. Newer MG better then Older MG, Newer PG better then older PG,, but when you jump out of scale/class and start comparing newer MG to older PG it wouldn't be that easy as there's lots of factors involve. I can understand people liking the extra panel lines on the design of the MG OYW RX-78-2 and yes you could call that as detail. But the reason why I said there's nothing to talk about because it's actually just your prefernce of LOOK,, some like it, some don't. And the fact that both MG and PG in comparasion was base on different design don't make it any easier. It's like saying you like the look of the Hummer H2 but I like the look of the Hummer H1. In those situations there's nothing much to talk about. Both have their Own standard in Detail base on their design. By the way,, I also happen to like the panel lines of the MG OYW RX-78-2 too,, over the more planer looking of the PG RX-78-2. I own both of them. But that' just more of a preference on looks than amount of detail that each have.
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Post by joydivision on May 26, 2006 3:54:07 GMT -5
i have the mg zeta 1.0 and also the pg zeta. i bought the mg first because the zeta was expensive. later on i ended buying the pg. also the mg zeta was my 2nd model after the pg wing. i also have the pg strike and gp01 and hy2m rik dom and will also get the pg mk2 but i will skip the pg rx-78. after i built the mg zeta i knew that it was the first and only mg i would get with the exception of the sazabi because i love the design and most probably won´t come out as a pg. the mg zeta was quickly placed on a corner and forgotten. on the other hand the pg zeta is proudly presented in my shelf. i love it. i noticed the mg zeta 2.0 improvements but it i thought at the time that it was like patches for videogames. some improvements but not much difference in the end. i would say mgs are much better balanced products. while the pgs are excessive. and please don´t say mgs are better than pgs because bandai can be listening and if they quit the pg line i know we all will be very sad!
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Post by mannyD on May 26, 2006 9:22:24 GMT -5
manny, you seem to have terrible reading comprehension. "The Kadou Senshi Gundam is drastically more accurate to the show than the perfect grade, but I wouldn't dream of calling it more detailed. If you go down that road the PG Zaku loses to the HGUC and the PG Strike loses to the 1/100 HG of all things." This is referring to show accuracy. I have no idea how you missed that. It is NOT referring to detail! Now, look at those pictures you have there. Which look more like the shows they are from? The HGUC and the HG! All of those extra details were made up for the models! Can't you see that you took those quotes from 2 completely separate parts of my post? Doing so has no value whatsoever! Now you're asking for pictures of my PGs and MGs, implying that I'm lying because otherwise it wouldn't matter whether they're mine or not. I'm not going to debate you any longer now that you've gone down the road of what must be intentionally taking things out of context (it's either intentional or you seriously need to work on your English reading comprehension), and insinuating that I am a liar- I can get across my points well enough talking to f360 without wasting my time with you. The difference between us here is that I just want to get across the truth, and you want to "protect" the PGs regardless of what the truth may be. Your 5 year old son can tell that the PG is more impressive on a whole, which is obvious and not the point of contention. I would hope that your comprehension would be better than a 5 year old. You probably still haven't even accepted the superiority of the MG2.0 Zeta's articulation, something that f360 did not even try to argue against because he knew how futile doing so would be. f360- OK, I understand your point with the hummer comparison. The 2 definately have a different style. At the same time, the PG's style isn't really any more accurate than the MG's. Neither look remotely like the lineart nor the anime. I guess we can say that if you like the kind of panel lines the OYW has, it has a lot more of them than the PG does. If you don't, but you like the kind of detail the PG has (fingers, vents etc), then the PG would be a better choice, detail-wise. However, the MG still clearly has a much greater range of motion, and if you throw in the weight issues that I had been purposely ignoring, it is drastically safer to pose in poses other than just standing up straight. You have already agreed with me on the Zeta. Looking at the MKII, I think we can throw out the lower body articulation issue. In your picture, the PG's leg is moving farther. However, both of those legs are already way beyond any kind of useful range of movement for the knee. Some articulation is important, some is superfluous. The MG knee area does look quite a bit better there thanks to the moving armor, though. If you count the legs as even, it comes down to the MG having superior shoulder articulation once again. Like I said before, this is very important for active looking poses, although with the PG there's a fair chance it wouldn't be able to hold such poses even if it had all the same shoulder articulation. I would count this as an overall victory for the MG, as you're getting almost everything the PG has along with effectively significantly better posability, the new armor movement thing and the stand at a much lower price, and I think you would agree that here the primary difference is really just size. Maybe it's a tie, but with my ultimate point being that the PG is not better than the MG just because it's a PG, I would even be willing to accept that conclusion. The PG zakus beat out the ancient MG zakus, although their articulation still is not impressive by a long shot. I expect someday a 2.0 zaku will come out that will put them to shame- in the meantime there is the F2, but if the OYW and PG rx-78 shouldn't be compared, these 2 kits all the more should not be. The strike and GP01 are both obvious victories for the PG. It's taken a while but I think we're just about done with this. show accuracy? ataru you're shooting at different points this time hehe. what happened to the- "vastly superior articulation of the MG", "same amount of detail as the PG", "The MGs simply have a wider range of movement", and "People were thinking PGs were generally the best, and this is absolutely wrong" dude who said you were a liar? i said it was misleading to make this bold claims. and i read "out of context"? dude, would you like me to read between the lines? and pretend to understand you. i don't think so hehe. dude what you said is definitely straight to the point "terrible reading comprehension", dude you don't know what your saying hehe (sorry). you make outstanding claims without definite proof. photographs of your PGs and MGs might have convince me. and lastly, "The difference between us here is that I just want to get across the truth, and you want to "protect" the PGs regardless of what the truth may be".......LOL! this is...pointless ;D you are making up things here hehe. you are asserting something i didn't say. dude, i like MG and HGUC too, and even kado senshi gundams. i am planning to get them too someday. yeah, i think were about done with this, and continue with the real topic- PGs, and not MGs vs PGs hehe lastly, ok regarding show accuracy you said- "The Kadou Senshi Gundam is drastically more accurate to the show than the perfect grade"... sez who? is that an official bandai announcement? i don't think so hehe. both are show accurate. the kado senshi is when you see the gundam from a far. then when it comes close to you, you see HGUC, then closer, you see MG, then closest you already see the details of the PG. best regards bro and advance happy birthday dude!
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Post by mannyD on May 26, 2006 9:24:36 GMT -5
hey guys, developments on my first PG: size comparison with spray can: wings and stabilizer: right leg: head and torso- took me 1.5 day stabilizer and right wing- 1 day left wing- 2 nights right leg- 1 day i've cleaned the plastic with gunze sangyo thinner on cotton buds, to remove the chemicals (from the moulding process), dust and dirt. then buffed the plastic with soft flannel cloth. i'm liking it a lot. hope to finish it next month, with panel lines, stickers and top coat.
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Post by mannyD on May 26, 2006 11:20:23 GMT -5
ataru: i thought we are done with this already bro heck, got to go bro, tis 12 midnight here. advance happy birthday ataru!!!
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Post by Qball99 on May 26, 2006 12:13:54 GMT -5
I think that this thread is getting out of control. There is a point when opinions turn into accusations and disrespect, and I think that some of the posts in this thread have crossed that line. Let’s get back to what this thread was meant for, “NEW PG GUNDAM INFORMATION”. I’ve been checking this thread hoping for new information regarding the Perfect Grade line, and all I’ve seen is arguing. A new thread could be easily created for MG Vs PG discussions/opinions or it could be left to PM. And on that note lets keep it a discussion/opinion session, rather than getting so personal with remarks. I think we could all agree that everyone has their own preference for scale/series/quality/etc.
Qball
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Post by Orbitron on May 26, 2006 12:21:43 GMT -5
So. WHAT IS THE NEXT PERFECT GRADE GUNDAM?
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Post by Qball99 on Jan 17, 2007 19:01:34 GMT -5
I know this is a very old topic, but does anyone have any updates? Has the line been discontinued? (Not including the Limited Pearl Strike, Limited Coating Zaku & Limited Recolor of the RX)
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Post by heavyarmscustom on Jan 18, 2007 3:55:05 GMT -5
I would not say it's dicontinued but on hold as Bandai is pushing the MG's and Seed D 1/144 scale models they tend to take two to three yearsto come out but i haven't heard a thing so for. I'll keep people posted if i find anything cliffton
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Post by GEN1AUTOBOT on Apr 8, 2007 7:49:55 GMT -5
Not to kick a dead horse, but has anyone heard any news of a new PG Gundam?
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Post by nikodiablo on Apr 8, 2007 21:31:11 GMT -5
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Post by kid on Apr 10, 2007 12:31:54 GMT -5
any feedback on the PG Wing Zero Custom? im plannin to get one
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Post by recca74 on Apr 17, 2007 16:26:29 GMT -5
any feedback on the PG Wing Zero Custom? im plannin to get one I'd like to see what this is all about too. If I didn't paint all my kits, it might be cool to pick up this pearlized version. However, as it stands, recolors seems to be the way of things for PG's now. Really, I wish Bandai would start a new marketing scheme for PG's. There are still plenty good subjects to take a look at. Maybe an ALEX or a Nu. Perhaps even a Ground Gundam Ez8 conversion or even a Hyaku Shiki for closure on a perfect AEUG team. My ultimate PG would be and EX S Gundam. Wow! ;D My main fear is that we'll A: get a PG Seed D kit ( SEED is fine, just oversaturated imo. Guess UC is too, but it's my fave. ). or B: they'll discontinue the line, as PGs are notoriously expensive to produce. Any of those scenerio's in not out of the realm of possibility IMHO.
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Post by jwm on Apr 17, 2007 17:04:13 GMT -5
Kid: Have you built other PG kits before? Like all the PG kits the WZC has its drawbacks. On the plus side if you build it right the zero is an amazingly poseable figure, especially considering the small feet and huge, heavy wings. If you want some building tips, several people here (including myself) have built the kit. Make sure and do a post for building tips before you start. Myself, I wish they'd overhaul the RX78/2 so it wasn't such a PIA to display. I also wish they'd do a Guntank and Guncannon to complete the trio.
JWM
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