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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 2, 2023 8:42:30 GMT -5
Come on S_. We can argue about price and die cast content, about tastes if you want, but you can't say Sentinel is not high end... they are over almost every company when it comes to engineering, and their sculpt is second to none.
for an engineering to be complex it must start with complex materials, plastic is easily manipulated even if they put diecast in some parts, not to mention for a figure to be complex it shouldn't have any designs flaws and be near perfect, the old Mazinkaiser breaks in two the new one get loose joints, in the bigger picture most of Riobot products have some issues here and there, i cant say their products have complex engineering or good value if they have designs flaws that could lead to breakage, keep in mind the main selling point here is articulation
on the other hand look at the GX-88 ton of diecast and decent articulation for a huge combiner, also Pose + Baxingar for me that is the most complex figure in my collection
for the sculpt its debatable but for me nothing comes close to Fewture stuff
this is why i dont see Sentinel as a high end company, B tier and im been nice
I don't think it's fair at all to claim that Sentinel's products aren't true high-end figures. Die-cast and light up gimmicks aren't the sign of s high-end figure, even cheap stuff can have them. For me the mark of a high-end figure is how well it's sculpted, how they nail proportions, the range of articulation and the engineering behind it, etc. Sentinel is still very good at implementing those, especially with their Flame Toys subline. However I don't think anyone would disagree that they are overpriced, and the market reacted accordingly. I feel that since around 2020 all their figures have been getting heavy discounts after release. And with how the Chinese toy making industry has been advancing and making names for themselves it becomes harder to justify Srntinel's, and even Bandai's, prices.
hehehe you took two things out of the 5 things i mentioned
what you are saying my friend is like, having a panoramic sunroof a 360" view cameras, leather seats are not luxury because cheap cars also have them, but is it the same exact materials ?
quick example you cant compare Mercedes's leather to Toyota's leather ?
and this is another main point, the type and the quality of the materials play key rule in final price tag, its simple, diecast will cost more than plastic any day of the week, if anyone trying to sell a semi plastic figure for the price of a diecast heavy figure, im easily gonna pass
sculpt wise as i said its debatable
as for the price from other companies, i think its still a bit reasonable, lets take Bandai's for example GX-105 was around $84, GX-25R + GX-26R was around $120 thats 3 SOC figures that cost less than 1 Riobot (Fire Dagown)
its just not reasonable for me
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Post by Magmatron on Apr 3, 2023 0:58:09 GMT -5
hehehe you took two things out of the 5 things i mentioned
what you are saying my friend is like, having a panoramic sunroof a 360" view cameras, leather seats are not luxury because cheap cars also have them, but is it the same exact materials ?
quick example you cant compare Mercedes's leather to Toyota's leather ?
and this is another main point, the type and the quality of the materials play key rule in final price tag, its simple, diecast will cost more than plastic any day of the week, if anyone trying to sell a semi plastic figure for the price of a diecast heavy figure, im easily gonna pass
sculpt wise as i said its debatable
as for the price from other companies, i think its still a bit reasonable, lets take Bandai's for example GX-105 was around $84, GX-25R + GX-26R was around $120 thats 3 SOC figures that cost less than 1 Riobot (Fire Dagown) its just not reasonable for me
But it's a very simple gimmick, though. Light up eyes are very basic and not at all comparable to a 360° camera. And as mentioned in my previous post, even Sentinel applies LEDs (as well as heavy use of die-cast) in the Flame Toys line. If you want to use the example of comparing the leather of a mid range car to a luxury car, the example works better if you compare similar materials instead of comparing different ones, which is why I said their plastic quality is higher than average. Just compare it to something like a mainline Transformer. And sculpt is something that can be seen easily. They're details are much sharper than something like Bandai's Super Robot Chogokin line, and they have a much higher part count, which adds to figure cost. No one is disagreeing with you that they aren't overpriced, though. We just disagree with the comment that they're low quality figures. |
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 3, 2023 10:16:03 GMT -5
But it's a very simple gimmick, though. Light up eyes are very basic and not at all comparable to a 360° camera. And as mentioned in my previous post, even Sentinel applies LEDs (as well as heavy use of die-cast) in the Flame Toys line. If you want to use the example of comparing the leather of a mid range car to a luxury car, the example works better if you compare similar materials instead of comparing different ones, which is why I said their plastic quality is higher than average. Just compare it to something like a mainline Transformer. And sculpt is something that can be seen easily. They're details are much sharper than something like Bandai's Super Robot Chogokin line, and they have a much higher part count, which adds to figure cost. No one is disagreeing with you that they aren't overpriced, though. We just disagree with the comment that they're low quality figures.
let me elaborate
lets take the GGGG for example the LED is very weak and when they are turned off they figure looks dead
on the other hand CCS Zero, the LEDs are strong have multiple modes and when they are turned off the figure doesn't look dead due to the fact they painted the actual eye its not just some clear cheap plastic yet Zero cost less than GGGG
my main point is there is a different between real leather and fake leather
so now you are comparing Riobot stuff to the SRC line ? okay lol, some will see it as a fair comparison but some will get mad at you lol
i didnt say they are low quality i said they are not a high end company, the over all quality of their products is not up there with the rest and its not as awful as revoltech for example
for me they are a B tier company
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Post by Magmatron on Apr 4, 2023 1:50:35 GMT -5
let me elaborate
lets take the GGGG for example the LED is very weak and when they are turned off they figure looks dead
on the other hand CCS Zero, the LEDs are strong have multiple modes and when they are turned off the figure doesn't look dead due to the fact they painted the actual eye its not just some clear cheap plastic yet Zero cost less than GGGG
my main point is there is a different between real leather and fake leather
so now you are comparing Riobot stuff to the SRC line ? okay lol, some will see it as a fair comparison but some will get mad at you lol
i didnt say they are low quality i said they are not a high end company, the over all quality of their products is not up there with the rest and its not as awful as revoltech for example
for me they are a B tier company
Gaogaigar was poorly designed. There aren't actually LEDs in the head, instead they relied on the clear plastic neck to allow light to travel from the chest LED to the eyes/hair. Unfortunately not only was the light received not enough, it gave the figure a fragile neck. The point of comparing it to the SRC line is showcasing how they're better sculpted/painted/etc, despite some of their figures being of similar size. |
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 4, 2023 7:29:09 GMT -5
Gaogaigar was poorly designed. There aren't actually LEDs in the head, instead they relied on the clear plastic neck to allow light to travel from the chest LED to the eyes/hair. Unfortunately not only was the light received not enough, it gave the figure a fragile neck. The point of comparing it to the SRC line is showcasing how they're better sculpted/painted/etc, despite some of their figures being of similar size.
bro you are saying what im saying right now 
poorly designed, fragile
its exactly what im saying lol, not a complex engineering + design flaws + no so good materials, dont forget some parts of that figure could break
im sure about this comparison man, i have tons of SRC's and none have a bad sculpt or bad paint like AT ALL
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Post by mpchi on Apr 11, 2023 2:07:41 GMT -5
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 11, 2023 11:15:28 GMT -5
man this Dag Fire looks like an after thought it hardly have any details
lets take this into a funny comparison, with the Pose + Goshogun TriThree a 3.8cm (combiner) with very good articulation, diecast and better sculpt
what does this mean i wounder ?
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Post by mpchi on Apr 11, 2023 12:46:18 GMT -5
man this Dag Fire looks like an after thought it hardly have any details lets take this into a funny comparison, with the Pose + Goshogun TriThree a 3.8cm (combiner) with very good articulation, diecast and better sculpt
what does this mean i wounder ?
I don't think it is that bad, given how small it is physically (look at that photo with the hand above). And they provide a better sculpted one that is non-transformable too, so the transforming one is not exactly the main focus/representation, but an accessory. While POSE+ Goshogun's TriThree IS the only focus there is, and just big enough to be possible as a combiner. I try to scale them pretty close to the measurement in this image.  |
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 11, 2023 21:42:03 GMT -5
I don't think it is that bad, given how small it is physically (look at that photo with the hand above). And they provide a better sculpted one that is non-transformable too, so the transforming one is not exactly the main focus/representation, but an accessory. While POSE+ Goshogun's TriThree IS the only focus there is, and just big enough to be possible as a combiner. I try to scale them pretty close to the measurement in this image.
there is no sugar coating with this one man 
this is Dag Fire
the figure they did is Dag without fire lol, notice how its missing ton of details and paint
also what do you mean by "TriThree is the only focus there is" ? Goshogun is legendary best figure you can get for the robot and it was my intro to Pose +
my point is if they were as good as some of you guys are claiming they would manage to pull a good looking good articulated Dag fire without giving us two versions
im just saying  |
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Post by bocasas on Apr 11, 2023 23:15:07 GMT -5
well it is almost 30% smaller (thats a lot, an in that scale). I know how you feel about sentinel but, as much as you complain sentinel is the company pushing the boundaries when it comes to articulation (even when it comes to combiners). I recognize pose+ and CCS are really good too (in fact I feel bandai is being left behind these 3 companies, but bandai still has a very good price/product ratio), and they use more diecast (if thats what you are looking for) but articulation wise sentinel always delivers, The same or more than most companies. As I said my jehuty is all plastic yet it has engineering details that surpass many actual figures.
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Post by mpchi on Apr 12, 2023 12:40:25 GMT -5
the figure they did is Dag without fire lol, notice how its missing ton of details and paint
also what do you mean by "TriThree is the only focus there is" ? Goshogun is legendary best figure you can get for the robot and it was my intro to Pose +
"Dag without fire. Fire stickers sold separately." Oh, on TriThree, I meant because it was big enough, they can make a proper combiner without making 2 copies, so they can focus to put details they can fit as well as combination mechanism all in one. Dag Fire has a lot less mass compare to TriThree. And when Sentinel opt to make two copies as solution, you likely won't see all the 'look good' details on the transforming one. You really need to take a ruler and check how small 2.6cm really is, not just on these enlarged photos online. It is just the length of the first segment of my pinky finger (tip of the nail to the first joint line).  |
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 12, 2023 14:41:31 GMT -5
well it is almost 30% smaller (thats a lot, an in that scale). I know how you feel about sentinel but, as much as you complain sentinel is the company pushing the boundaries when it comes to articulation (even when it comes to combiners). I recognize pose+ and CCS are really good too (in fact I feel bandai is being left behind these 3 companies, but bandai still has a very good price/product ratio), and they use more diecast (if thats what you are looking for) but articulation wise sentinel always delivers, The same or more than most companies. As I said my jehuty is all plastic yet it has engineering details that surpass many actual figures.
i would like to add Moshow along with Pose + and CCS, for me Moshow are a head in term on articulation and solidity
Bandai is not paying attention to the SOC line for me personally last wow release was the GX-88, the GX-100 is cool but its just a huge figure with nice touches, they need to do another jaw dropping figure to show they still got it
i wouldn't say Sentinel always delivers articulation wise since some figures might break, and GGGG articulation is very limited
"Dag without fire. Fire stickers sold separately." Oh, on TriThree, I meant because it was big enough, they can make a proper combiner without making 2 copies, so they can focus to put details they can fit as well as combination mechanism all in one. Dag Fire has a lot less mass compare to TriThree. And when Sentinel opt to make two copies as solution, you likely won't see all the 'look good' details on the transforming one. You really need to take a ruler and check how small 2.6cm really is, not just on these enlarged photos online. It is just the length of the first segment of my pinky finger (tip of the nail to the first joint line).
exclusive version comes with extra paint and $100 extra lol yes i can see them doing that
fine you dont like Pose + TriThree as an example ok i will give you another TriThree but this time from CM's its a 1.8cm combiner, it have full paint and some articulation no part swapping and they didnt include another figure, key point thats around 16 years old figure
i actually did measured both of my TriThree's to see how tall are they, also the photo's of Dag without fire in the dude hand gave me a good idea about it
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Post by mpchi on Apr 12, 2023 17:21:28 GMT -5
fine you dont like Pose + TriThree as an example ok i will give you another TriThree but this time from CM's its a 1.8cm combiner, it have full paint and some articulation no part swapping and they didnt include another figure, key point thats around 16 years old figure
i actually did measured both of my TriThree's to see how tall are they, also the photo's of Dag without fire in the dude hand gave me a good idea about it
Fact check, fact check!  CM's TriThree is not 1.8cm. In fact, just its pants are hitting 3cm (longer than the 2.65cm Dag without Fire). Look below, (featuring my pinky).  When I saw you said CM's TriThree is THAT tiny, I was like, "That can't be right", and went digging it out of my crowded cabinet. I can't measure my POSE+ TriThree though, still in the box under a pile I don't want to dig up. Have a feeling you mistaken Inch as Centimeter by mistake. If that is the case, Dag without Fire is a lot smaller than you think, and my estimated scale photoshop in previous post would be way off, since it was based on your measurements. It should be more like this below.  |
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 12, 2023 18:04:07 GMT -5
Fact check, fact check! CM's TriThree is not 1.8cm. In fact, just its pants are hitting 3cm (longer than the 2.65cm Dag without Fire). Look below, (featuring my pinky). When I saw you said CM's TriThree is THAT tiny, I was like, "That can't be right", and went digging it out of my crowded cabinet. I can't measure my POSE+ TriThree though, still in the box under a pile I don't want to dig up. Have a feeling you mistaken Inch as Centimeter by mistake. If that is the case, Dag without Fire is a lot smaller than you think, and my estimated scale photoshop in previous post would be way off, since it was based on your measurements. It should be more like this below.
oh wow thank you for correcting me brother
my measurements were way off and its exactly like you said, mine is only in inches and i thought its in CM LOL
well in this case i take what i said back and i will give some credit to Sentinel since the figure is that small
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Post by mpchi on Apr 12, 2023 18:08:47 GMT -5
Fact check, fact check! CM's TriThree is not 1.8cm. In fact, just its pants are hitting 3cm (longer than the 2.65cm Dag without Fire). Look below, (featuring my pinky). When I saw you said CM's TriThree is THAT tiny, I was like, "That can't be right", and went digging it out of my crowded cabinet. I can't measure my POSE+ TriThree though, still in the box under a pile I don't want to dig up. Have a feeling you mistaken Inch as Centimeter by mistake. If that is the case, Dag without Fire is a lot smaller than you think, and my estimated scale photoshop in previous post would be way off, since it was based on your measurements. It should be more like this below. oh wow thank you for correcting me brother my measurements were way off and its exactly like you said, mine is only in inches and i thought its in CM LOL
well in this case i take what i said back and i will give some credit to Sentinel since the figure is that small
Regardless, the name "Dag without Fire" is going to stay for good (for me at least, and valid criticism on that). |
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Post by Magmatron on Apr 13, 2023 3:25:15 GMT -5
If that is the case, Dag without Fire is a lot smaller than you think, and my estimated scale photoshop in previous post would be way off, since it was based on your measurements. It should be more like this below. It didn't hit me how small it was until you showed it in comparison to something I own. This minifig is just asking to be lost. |
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Post by GetterBoi on Apr 24, 2023 9:23:04 GMT -5
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Post by S_Gokin on Apr 27, 2023 21:50:02 GMT -5
so 36k for Fire Dagown and another 36k Power Dagwon, this is about 72k Yen for two figures and thats without adding Gun Kid to the mix  |
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Post by Magmatron on Feb 18, 2024 8:27:54 GMT -5
You can wait 3 month after release & buy them for 30 to 40% off tbh It's funny seeing this comment and then looking at all the sold-out listing at Japanese retailers for this figure. |
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Post by mpchi on Feb 18, 2024 15:53:31 GMT -5
You can wait 3 month after release & buy them for 30 to 40% off tbh It's funny seeing this comment and then looking at all the sold-out listing at Japanese retailers for this figure. Guess there is an appetite for Braves (other than GGGs) afterall. |
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CM's TriThree is not 1.8cm. In fact, just its pants are hitting 3cm (longer than the 2.65cm Dag without Fire). Look below, (featuring my pinky).
